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06-30-2020, 11:50 AM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Why? Why should people with 6 or 7 inch bridge lengths bring the cue all the way back? What's your reasoning on that?

Why do backstrokes that vary in length lead to poked strokes? I don't understand.

Overlong bridges? Timing?
Timing, yes, eased with what I suggest:

For players who strive for a consistent stroke pace with smooth acceleration, the longer the forward stroke, the more acceleration.

Take a student who hits X cue ball speed with a five inch bridge, because their cue travels for five inches of smooth acceleration before the cue ball. But with a five-inch bridge and a two- or three-inch backstroke, they have to lunge awkwardly to get the five-inch speed. I see this "guess and go" move often.

Committing to a full length (smooth) backstroke allows you to dial in cue ball speed by setting bridge length. By getting a student to concentrate on a smooth and gentle stroke, they learn to stop jabbing at or through the cue ball while gaining great confidence with cue ball speed. And that smooth backstroke and forward stroke is of great benefit, of course.

Most shots short of an open break need no more than a 7-inch bridge if the backstroke is full, complete. I've seen "pokers and jabbers" gain great confidence with cue ball speed and lose the "pokiness" in minutes.


-- Matt Sherman

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Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
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FranCrimi
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07-01-2020, 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
Timing, yes, eased with what I suggest:

For players who strive for a consistent stroke pace with smooth acceleration, the longer the forward stroke, the more acceleration.

Take a student who hits X cue ball speed with a five inch bridge, because their cue travels for five inches of smooth acceleration before the cue ball. But with a five-inch bridge and a two- or three-inch backstroke, they have to lunge awkwardly to get the five-inch speed. I see this "guess and go" move often.

Committing to a full length (smooth) backstroke allows you to dial in cue ball speed by setting bridge length. By getting a student to concentrate on a smooth and gentle stroke, they learn to stop jabbing at or through the cue ball while gaining great confidence with cue ball speed. And that smooth backstroke and forward stroke is of great benefit, of course.

Most shots short of an open break need no more than a 7-inch bridge if the backstroke is full, complete. I've seen "pokers and jabbers" gain great confidence with cue ball speed and lose the "pokiness" in minutes.
You know what this sounds like, Matt? This sounds like it's coming from an amateur who hasn't played the game nearly long enough or hasn't improved nearly enough to truly understand it.

I gave you this advice a long time ago and I'll say it again. Become a better player and you'll understand the game better.
  
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07-02-2020, 07:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
You know what this sounds like, Matt? This sounds like it's coming from an amateur who hasn't played the game nearly long enough or hasn't improved nearly enough to truly understand it.

I gave you this advice a long time ago and I'll say it again. Become a better player and you'll understand the game better.
That is untrue. I'd like you to see a shot I use in teaching.

At a group clinic, I'll invite a volunteer to play safe and leave the cue and eight balls near or on the rail:



They typically try for a short backstroke with a long bridge, to make a delicate forward stroke. They also typically hit the balls hard, with a poked, sloppy stroke, leaving the incoming player a great shot.

I reset the shot and help them take a stance with a half-inch bridge. Yes, a tiny bit of cue tip only, their hand almost atop the balls. Then I encourage them to take a full smooth backstroke and a full forward stroke based on that short intentional backstroke.

It sometimes takes a second or third try for them to get the feel of this gentle nursing shot, but after, their safety play is transformed. Happy students who've blown this kind of safe for years are now able to return the position above or worsen it for the incoming player, 50 out of 50 tries.

Hall-of-famers used 7-inch bridges. I heard what you said about long bridges and aim, but what I say is valid also.

It's not just about delicate safeties, either. Shorter bridging and full, smooth backstrokes would help most amateurs lock in cue ball speed and gain great stroke control overall.

I'm well aware that pros can use super-long bridges with short backstrokes beautifully, but that touch is lacking for most players. Unfortunately, it bears repeating, your claim that I don't know what I'm doing is shown false by the many students I've seen improve, vastly, quickly, using the short bridge method.

I'm giving you the chance to show a new wrinkle to your students that will help them fast. We can learn from one another, grow together.


-- Matt Sherman

Guide to Pool and Billiards, About.com
Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, Book & DVD, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool (Named to the 25 Best Billiards Books of All Time by Bookauthority)

Last edited by BilliardsAbout; 07-02-2020 at 03:38 PM.
  
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07-02-2020, 04:21 PM

One half inch, huh? "Then I encourage them to take a full smooth backstroke and a full forward stroke based on that short intentional backstroke." I'd invite everyone who sees this to try it and let us know how they make out and just how smooth it is.
I'm sorry, but I try, I really try not to get involved in this insanity but that last post is just possibly the most ridiculous post of all time on this forum.
  
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07-03-2020, 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkle84 View Post
One half inch, huh? "Then I encourage them to take a full smooth backstroke and a full forward stroke based on that short intentional backstroke." I'd invite everyone who sees this to try it and let us know how they make out and just how smooth it is.
I'm sorry, but I try, I really try not to get involved in this insanity but that last post is just possibly the most ridiculous post of all time on this forum.
Sparkle,

Your post shows this--you haven't tried it yourself. You're missing out. I've demonstrated and taught the smooth, short stroke in lessons and in clinics with over 20 students in attendance. Using it, you can nurse the balls in the diagram to leave your opponent what he left you, 50 out of 50 tries.

Similar smooth, short strokes have been in use for over a century in games like Balkline.

In pool, we take smooth backstrokes and forward strokes to help yield the approximate rule of "forward stroke equals double the length of the backstroke" as we generate smooth momentum.

Your post is disrespectful to me as a pool teacher, but I will not respond in kind.

[A]nd the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.


-- Matt Sherman

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Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, Book & DVD, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool (Named to the 25 Best Billiards Books of All Time by Bookauthority)
  
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07-03-2020, 06:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dquarasr View Post
I've noticed my accuracy improves when I shorten my backstroke.

I realize it is difficult to speak in generalities and what might work for someone might not work for me, but is there a recommended length for the backstroke?


no

Good Question....

Just to clarify your thought, is it shortening....or ''Pausing'' before delivering the cue to the target.
Some think it means the same, it doesn't.

Another possible understanding of what your saying....of the ''shot'' that may be of help.

Are you asking us, how much should your arm swing backwards past (bottom dead center) 6 o'clock, before delivering the cue to the cue ball?

This sounds like the question, my answer, what ever feels good thru excessive play, and what holds up under Pressure.

Another way to perceive this you could look at Allen Hopkins another extreme example of getting the job done THE OPPOSITE OF ALL GRENT PLAYERS, NO backstroke....just an East Coast punch stroke/THROWING MOTION, one of a kind amongst his peers....and probably the entire generation of players from the Mosconi days and before. With the newer faster cloths, this swing action it's proven/effective....but,NOT with the old/slow rag cloth of the 60's and before.

Hope these thoughts, help you process properly what's truly going on or not.


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Today, 09:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
That is untrue. I'd like you to see a shot I use in teaching.

At a group clinic, I'll invite a volunteer to play safe and leave the cue and eight balls near or on the rail:



They typically try for a short backstroke with a long bridge, to make a delicate forward stroke. They also typically hit the balls hard, with a poked, sloppy stroke, leaving the incoming player a great shot.

I reset the shot and help them take a stance with a half-inch bridge. Yes, a tiny bit of cue tip only, their hand almost atop the balls. Then I encourage them to take a full smooth backstroke and a full forward stroke based on that short intentional backstroke.

It sometimes takes a second or third try for them to get the feel of this gentle nursing shot, but after, their safety play is transformed. Happy students who've blown this kind of safe for years are now able to return the position above or worsen it for the incoming player, 50 out of 50 tries.

Hall-of-famers used 7-inch bridges. I heard what you said about long bridges and aim, but what I say is valid also.

It's not just about delicate safeties, either. Shorter bridging and full, smooth backstrokes would help most amateurs lock in cue ball speed and gain great stroke control overall.

I'm well aware that pros can use super-long bridges with short backstrokes beautifully, but that touch is lacking for most players. Unfortunately, it bears repeating, your claim that I don't know what I'm doing is shown false by the many students I've seen improve, vastly, quickly, using the short bridge method.

I'm giving you the chance to show a new wrinkle to your students that will help them fast. We can learn from one another, grow together.
Who the heck uses a long bridge length on this kind of shot? You're saying I condone a long bridge length on this type of shot with a short stroke? Geez Matt, your lack of understanding of this game is really showing. The solution to this type of shot is to stand taller. That takes care of the visual issues and allows the player to use a shorter bridge length.

Like I wrote before Matt. Become a better player and you'll understand more. Right now you're not doing your clients any justice.
  
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