The Greatest Players

Drop The Rock

Drop The Rock

1652nd on AZ Money List
Silver Member
I have an issue with this concept. Most of us will think of who did the best in one particular discipline of the game. The way I try to think of it is kind of like DCC.
The guys who win masters of the table are IMO the best PLAYERS. Tournaments can often be a coin toss, and gambling has some merits of measurement, but at the end of the day measuring players from a more "all-around" perspective is the best way to go in my opinion. This is why I consider Alex Pagulayan, Dennis Orcollo, Efren, Shane, Earl, Cory, Daz and some others to be leaps and bounds ahead of some of the "up and coming" pros.

IMO its the all around that makes a player a true champion. There is a reason the MVP in basketball isn't awarded to a player who is good at just one thing say shooting for example otherwise Kobe would have had a few. Its the all around. That to me is the true X Factor and is what defines a champion. The all around ability, their heart and their accomplishments.
 
Mr. Bond

Mr. Bond

Orbis Non Sufficit
Gold Member
Silver Member
Which is why Alfredo De Oro is one of the best players to ever walk the earth. He didn't limit himself to one discipline. Who alive today holds multiple world titles in both 3cushion and 14.1 ?

*cricket chirp*
 
boogeyman

boogeyman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mr. Bond said:
Which is why Alfredo De Oro is one of the best players to ever walk the earth. He didn't limit himself to one discipline. Who alive today holds multiple world titles in both 3cushion and 14.1 ?

*cricket chirp*
Click to expand...

Good call. It's too bad the lion's share of AZers have no idea about De Oro ('yours truly' included).

Looks like the original poster didn't do his/her homework when posing the question.

The only other player who comes to my mind that equals the skill-set in such disparate games is none other than Efren Reyes.
This guy can play some 3 cushion AND Balkline!

An all-around between De Oro and Reyes would be a nice fantasy match indeed!
 
Drop The Rock

Drop The Rock

1652nd on AZ Money List
Silver Member
boogeyman said:
Good call. It's too bad the lion's share of AZers have no idea about De Oro ('yours truly' included).

Looks like the original poster didn't do his/her homework when posing the question.

The only other player who comes to my mind that equals the skill-set in such disparate games is none other than Efren Reyes.
This guy can play some 3 cushion AND Balkline!

An all-around between De Oro and Reyes would be a nice fantasy match indeed!
Click to expand...

You'll have to forgive my ignorance as I am only 22 and have only been around for a couple years in the pool scene. I also spend to match time watching one pocket and other games that are more popular in the US. Not much for 3 Cushion around here :(
 
macguy

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Drop The Rock said:
I have an issue with this concept. Most of us will think of who did the best in one particular discipline of the game. The way I try to think of it is kind of like DCC.
The guys who win masters of the table are IMO the best PLAYERS. Tournaments can often be a coin toss, and gambling has some merits of measurement, but at the end of the day measuring players from a more "all-around" perspective is the best way to go in my opinion. This is why I consider Alex Pagulayan, Dennis Orcollo, Efren, Shane, Earl, Cory, Daz and some others to be leaps and bounds ahead of some of the "up and coming" pros.

IMO its the all around that makes a player a true champion. There is a reason the MVP in basketball isn't awarded to a player who is good at just one thing say shooting for example otherwise Kobe would have had a few. Its the all around. That to me is the true X Factor and is what defines a champion. The all around ability, their heart and their accomplishments.
Click to expand...
I agree completely. When Danny DiLiberto was put in the HOF I believe it was his all around abilities that made him a stand out. He would come in a pool room when on the road and could play any game anybody wanted to play. Including billiards, (Far from his best game) and Golf on the snooker table.

Usually playing them their game on their table and giving them weight to boot. I never liked it when a guy would come in looking for action and they have all kinds of rules. Only play certain games only their rules and so on. The all around player is king, no doubt it.
 
measureman

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The career of the distinguished Cuban champion Alfredo de Oro encompassed both Three-Cushion and Pocket Billiards and spanned the closing decades of the 19th century and the opening decades of the 20th. De Oro, who served in his country's diplomatic corps, first gained the Pocket Billiard crown in 1887. He was to repeat the achievement 16 times in the next 25 years. De Oro held the Three-Cushion title 10 times from 1908 through 1919. In 1934, at the age of 71, de Oro came out of retirement for a Championship Tournament, winning two dramatic victories from defending champion Welker Cochran and the ultimate winner of the tournament, Johnny Layton.

Pretty sporty record.
 
K

kyootie

Registered
I was never really impressed with Minnesota Fats. I don't think he would stand a chance against the top pro's of today
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I pretty much all sports, ther is a big difference between the top 2% and the top 20%.

I am not sure what it is, but there is something that elevates one to champ, from pro.
 
Donny Lutz

Donny Lutz

Ferrule Cat
Silver Member
"Fats"

kyootie said:
I was never really impressed with Minnesota Fats. I don't think he would stand a chance against the top pro's of today
Click to expand...

He never stood much of a chance against the top players in his era, either. He was little more than a hustler who wasn't even from Minnesota. He stole his "stage" name after "The Hustler" came out.
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
kyootie said:
I was never really impressed with Minnesota Fats. I don't think he would stand a chance against the top pro's of today
Click to expand...

Fatty was inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame for a good reason....
....he was a good player, but not a world champion.
He made pool popular....perhaps a greater influence in his day than Willie Mosconi.

If he hung around your room, you would beg him not to leave.
...he was like WC Fields.....with a stroke
 
spartan

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pt109 said:
Fatty was inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame for a good reason....
....he was a good player, but not a world champion.
He made pool popular....perhaps a greater influence in his day than Willie Mosconi.

If he hung around your room, you would beg him not to leave.
...he was like WC Fields.....with a stroke
Click to expand...

One could argue that those who contributed most in growing the game and sparking interest among the masses are the outsiders like Fats, Newman, Cruise NOT the champions /pro players/HOF
:)
 
PoolBum

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
pt109 said:
Fatty was inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame for a good reason....
....he was a good player, but not a world champion.
He made pool popular....perhaps a greater influence in his day than Willie Mosconi.

If he hung around your room, you would beg him not to leave.
...he was like WC Fields.....with a stroke
Click to expand...

C'mon now, W.C. Fields had a great stroke. Take a look for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQYNvEPi9-s
 
S

SilentMike

Registered
I have trouble making this kind of judgement because, to be fair, I'd have to include cushion billiards in my assessment.

and I say this with shame...I can't watch cushion billiards for more than about five minutes before I'm bored to tears. I know there's a lot to learn from those guys...but I can't make my mind catch that gear.



but Efren, I understand, can do it all.
 
Rico

Rico

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The best

It is very subjective but Harold Worst would stand above all in all around . But after that Nick Varner ,Allen Hopkins,Mike Siegel,Dallas West were right there with all todays all around players.P.S. Jimmy Rempe was no shortstop
 
B

billinboston

Registered
I'm thinking Harold Worst ?????
World 3 cushion champ, killer at all pocket games in just
A short period before his passing.
Many Players i think would agree... he would play anyone
For any amount at any game. Supposedly huge courage
And confidence at his own skills, and several top players would
Not play him
Boston Shorty told me Harold was phenomenal at every game
And would just walk up to anyone and ask if they wanted to play for
Any amount. He said 3 cushions had the highest skill but it was
A joke because it could not get him a cup of coffee.
 
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B

billinboston

Registered
Wrong ! If you ever had a chance to talk to Ronnie Allen
Jersey Red, Boston Shorty.... you would hear the opposite
Fatty played only a ball behind the best one pocket players
He played banks better than any of them... he played great 3 cushion
And when money games were up high.. over a thousand a game
He never choked in comparison to the men supposedly better than him
He was playing Handsome Danny with Danny giving him 8-7
Fatty was down 4k until his game clicked.... he came back
And ran 8 and out on Danny for 4k..... he then said....
"Danny my boy... your in the Lions Den now...next game 8k
What do you want to do ? "
All backers ran on Danny !
 
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HoldemRw

HoldemRw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Harold worst for me as well greatest all around player

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 
John Disque

John Disque

Banned
pt109 said:
Fatty was inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame for a good reason....
....he was a good player, but not a world champion.
He made pool popular....perhaps a greater influence in his day than Willie Mosconi.

If he hung around your room, you would beg him not to leave.
...he was like WC Fields.....with a stroke
Click to expand...

Rudolf Wanderone never beat anyone and was only famous for running his mouth.

He was a good card-player but he HURT pool and convinced millions of American parents to keep their children away from degenerates and idiots like this fat-ass.

He put on a freak-show, with nothing but his mouth, and it was interesting for about 10 minutes - then people laughed at him, and the pool world, and were convinced that it was filled with fools like Fatty.

HE LEFT POOL IN THE DARK AGES and got rich by being an obnoxious, loud, attention-junkie.
 
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