Correct all the way.
Players that cheat
- Thread starter justnum
- Start date
Correct all the way.
Let me simply ask you straight out so that you can cease being vague. Do you think taking an intentional foul (e.g. intentionally not hitting the lowest numbered ball first in a rotation game) in pool is "breaking the rules", and thus unethical? You may have explicitly stated this in another thread, but I don't feel like surfing through your post history.You are also putting words in my mouth about what percentage of people are willing to break the rules to win. I simply stated my opinion and if the shoe fits, wear it. You are the one saying exact numbers and speaking for people that are not you.
Funny this situation comes up today in the US Open...
http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id...il-mickelson-swats-moving-ball-putter-us-open
Apparently Mickelson intentionally putt a moving ball and took the penalty, since he reasoned it was "better than the alternative".
To me, this is akin to what is considered "unsportsmanlike behavior" in the pool world, such as intentionally hitting an OB with the cue stick or picking up the CB without stroking it with the cue.
http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id...il-mickelson-swats-moving-ball-putter-us-open
Apparently Mickelson intentionally putt a moving ball and took the penalty, since he reasoned it was "better than the alternative".
To me, this is akin to what is considered "unsportsmanlike behavior" in the pool world, such as intentionally hitting an OB with the cue stick or picking up the CB without stroking it with the cue.
The issue should perhaps be framed in terms of what distinguishes cheating from simply breaking the rules. A couple of things that are relevant are: 1) is the breach of rules open and obvious or is there an attempt to conceal it or deceive; and 2) is the penalty accepted or is there an attempt to avoid the penalty for a clear and acknowledged breach of rules.
If the person breaking the rules is doing so in an obvious and acknowledged manner and has simply made a judgment that he is strategically better off with the penalty as opposed to where he would be in the absence of the breach, it is probably not cheating.
In football, occasionally a team intentionally takes too much time in the huddle and accepts a five-yard penalty to improve the angle on a field goal attempt. It's against the rules to take too much time in the huddle but no one calls that cheating. Similarly, if a basketball player makes an intentional foul to stop the clock or even to prevent an obvious layup, it's not cheating; it's a strategic move. In each instance, the team or player makes a conscious decision to violate a rule and accept the penalty as strategic choice. It's not an attempt to gain a unfair advantage. It's part of the game.
If the person or team breaking the rules tries to deny the breach when it's clear that is what he/they did or avoid the penalty, that's different. Otherwise, it's basically liquidated damages. Everybody accepts the consequences and goes on as best they can.
If the person breaking the rules is doing so in an obvious and acknowledged manner and has simply made a judgment that he is strategically better off with the penalty as opposed to where he would be in the absence of the breach, it is probably not cheating.
In football, occasionally a team intentionally takes too much time in the huddle and accepts a five-yard penalty to improve the angle on a field goal attempt. It's against the rules to take too much time in the huddle but no one calls that cheating. Similarly, if a basketball player makes an intentional foul to stop the clock or even to prevent an obvious layup, it's not cheating; it's a strategic move. In each instance, the team or player makes a conscious decision to violate a rule and accept the penalty as strategic choice. It's not an attempt to gain a unfair advantage. It's part of the game.
If the person or team breaking the rules tries to deny the breach when it's clear that is what he/they did or avoid the penalty, that's different. Otherwise, it's basically liquidated damages. Everybody accepts the consequences and goes on as best they can.
Ignore. I totally forgot about this feature. So far most people have been pretty civil. Thanks.
Trent from Toledo
Trent from Toledo
Finally...a post that makes all the sense out of this crazy discussion.
Well said, Clusterbuster!
Maniac
I captained a team that had won sessions finals 3 times in a row & 4 out of the last 5. Well of course the other teams wanted to beat us. Shame is, one team was more than willing to cheat. More than that, they plotted, planned & practiced their cheat over a period of weeks.
Playing on an 8 foot quarters table. We had always used an Aramith green squiggle cue ball. The pool hall always had one on the table each & every time we played in the semi-finals & the finals. We had played on the same table with the same good Aramith cue ball the week before winning the semi-finals. The other team came in early immediately taking the table we were to use in the finals & practicing. Ok fine. They waited until I was away from this table & started play quickly. I right away noticed that the cue ball was very dirty & of a different color. I pointed this out to their team captain & he said we could switch the ball after the 1st game. After the game I picked up the cue ball with the intention of switching it out. I carry a clean Aramith ball at all times. The manager/owner of the pool hall then stated that I had to wait until after the match to switch out the cue ball & then "maybe". Guess what... the 'mud' ball stayed on the table.
This ball was filthy, heavy, out-of-round & had a big chip out of it. This cue ball had never been on a table in this pool hall before. The other teamed had switched out the good ball for this one. Coincidentally they had never made use of the free pool on mondays & wednesdays to have team practice. Turns out they were practicing in secret at another location for weeks with their 'mud' ball.
Our players had much trouble with this ball as you could not put any draw on it, it rolled funny & forget playing any bank or kick shots. By the time I played the 3rd & last match we were so far behind in points, forget it. Trying to learn with a ball we had never used before. I had to throw in the towel 2nd game cuz I needed to draw the cuz back 4 inches. Couldn't do it.
P.S. this 'mud' ball disappeared after that night never to been seen again.
Playing on an 8 foot quarters table. We had always used an Aramith green squiggle cue ball. The pool hall always had one on the table each & every time we played in the semi-finals & the finals. We had played on the same table with the same good Aramith cue ball the week before winning the semi-finals. The other team came in early immediately taking the table we were to use in the finals & practicing. Ok fine. They waited until I was away from this table & started play quickly. I right away noticed that the cue ball was very dirty & of a different color. I pointed this out to their team captain & he said we could switch the ball after the 1st game. After the game I picked up the cue ball with the intention of switching it out. I carry a clean Aramith ball at all times. The manager/owner of the pool hall then stated that I had to wait until after the match to switch out the cue ball & then "maybe". Guess what... the 'mud' ball stayed on the table.
This ball was filthy, heavy, out-of-round & had a big chip out of it. This cue ball had never been on a table in this pool hall before. The other teamed had switched out the good ball for this one. Coincidentally they had never made use of the free pool on mondays & wednesdays to have team practice. Turns out they were practicing in secret at another location for weeks with their 'mud' ball.
Our players had much trouble with this ball as you could not put any draw on it, it rolled funny & forget playing any bank or kick shots. By the time I played the 3rd & last match we were so far behind in points, forget it. Trying to learn with a ball we had never used before. I had to throw in the towel 2nd game cuz I needed to draw the cuz back 4 inches. Couldn't do it.
P.S. this 'mud' ball disappeared after that night never to been seen again.
Which team was the home team? Home team gets to use whatever cue ball they want. Some leagues may state that which ever cue ball was used to practice cant be swapped out unless both teams agree. Basically home team cant let you practice with one cue ball then switch it for the match. If they were the home team. They didn't cheat. They used strategy.
And what if the cue ball was out of spec? Are they permitted to put in a carom ball or a snooker ball?
It is an 'in-house' league so no home team. Although now that you mention it, the manager/owner of the pool hall is buddies with the other team members. Undoubtedly that explains his ruling as he considered the other team to be his 'home team'. Both captains had agreed to switch out the cue ball which was overruled by the manager/owner to the benefit of his perceived 'home team'.
From the League Rules: "CUE BALL – Every player has to use the same cue ball throughout the entire match. Team
captains must agree on the ball to be used BEFORE any match is played."
Pretty clear this was cheating. Without that mud ball on the table we would have won the finals. I can work magic with a good cue ball.
From the League Rules: "CUE BALL – Every player has to use the same cue ball throughout the entire match. Team
captains must agree on the ball to be used BEFORE any match is played."
Pretty clear this was cheating. Without that mud ball on the table we would have won the finals. I can work magic with a good cue ball.
Remember 'Deflategate'?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate
NFL custom was for the home team to provide all of the game's footballs. So under-inflated balls were used in games to the advantage of the home team who had practiced in secret with these same under-inflated balls.
A clear & perfect example of cheating. An excellent analogy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate
NFL custom was for the home team to provide all of the game's footballs. So under-inflated balls were used in games to the advantage of the home team who had practiced in secret with these same under-inflated balls.
A clear & perfect example of cheating. An excellent analogy.
Ideal gas law. Cold weather. This has been beaten to death.
wow this guy is a creep
Watching a money match streamed
Player got the 8 in 9 ball
Creepo scratched on 6
underdog shot the 7 and got great position on 8
not so quick
player got into preshot and up jumped creepo to accuse him of a foul said he touched the cueball on his warmup strokes big argument call goes to shooter who then promptly missed and lost the cash
This guy is banned from a bunch of poolrooms due to his antics
Watching a money match streamed
Player got the 8 in 9 ball
Creepo scratched on 6
underdog shot the 7 and got great position on 8
not so quick
player got into preshot and up jumped creepo to accuse him of a foul said he touched the cueball on his warmup strokes big argument call goes to shooter who then promptly missed and lost the cash
This guy is banned from a bunch of poolrooms due to his antics
You need to stay on your toes when playing One Pocket! :thumbup:
My friend has an interesting cheat...
He's a big guy with a huge gut. He always plans his shot selection so that if any of his object balls are on the rail he leans over them to take a shot at another ball. Mysteriously, his object ball is suddenly 3 inches off the rail. He then claims he never touched the ball. He must have stomach muscles like a belly dancer!
He's a big guy with a huge gut. He always plans his shot selection so that if any of his object balls are on the rail he leans over them to take a shot at another ball. Mysteriously, his object ball is suddenly 3 inches off the rail. He then claims he never touched the ball. He must have stomach muscles like a belly dancer!