Unusual 1pocket Scenario -- What's the Call?

Sounds like they play a new game to me since confusion was caused by both players without noticing it for a while unless they both agree to just let it sit as it ended, which is not likely the loser would want to do LOL

From the "Official One Pocket Rules" on OnePocket.crg:

"11.2 In the event that a player shooting into the wrong pocket is permitted to continue the same inning at the table (beyond what is entitled by legally pocketing a ball in their own pocket) by their opponent’s or the referee’s failure to notify them of their error, such failure of notification does not legitimize any additional balls pocketed in that inning, whether pocketed in the shooter’s pocket or their opponent’s pocket. Thus the first shot to the wrong pocket in a given inning is the shooter’s responsibility, and the shooter’s opponent is entitled to any balls pocketed on that first stroke. However, any subsequently pocketed balls in the same inning are to be spotted as illegally pocketed balls, because it is the referee’s or opponent’s responsibility to notify the shooter before they erroneously continue their inning."

Player B removing the wrong penny is what makes this really complicated, and in fact so complicated it calls for a re-rack. If not for the pennies, player B shot at the correct pocket and player A shot at the wrong one, and the erroneously-racked balls can just be moved to player B's side.

But if player A used the penny (since he knew he owed one) to identify his pocket, and player B's mistake is the reason the wrong penny was still up, then both players have really botched up this rack and they should both admit it and start over.

lfigueroa said:

ahem, let me see if I can describe this accurately:

Player A lays down a good break to the right pocket putting a couple of balls in front of his pocket

Player B jacks up and plays a safety that freezes the CB to the top of the stack and drives two balls in front of his pocket

Player A then takes an intentional foul but mistakenly puts a penny on the left pocket

Player B takes an intentional back, sees the first penny on the left pocket and mistakenly puts his penny on the right-side pocket

Player A shoots a safety up table but leaves a shot

Player B takes the shot, runs four into the left pocket, pays the owed ball, but then puts the remaining three balls into the right side tray where he originally put his penny by mistake and removes the penny

Player A, a few shots later, gets loose, sees the remaining penny, and runs four into the left pocket and plays safe. (Player B is not paying attention and says nothing during the run.) When Player A goes to put the balls in his tray he suddenly realizes he shot at the wrong pocket and Player B has his balls on the wrong side

What’s the call?

And yes, these are two pretty good, experienced players who just weren’t paying enough attention and got fooled by the pennies.

Lou Figueroa

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I thought this stuff only happened to me. I think I would agree to a re-rack no matter which player I was. What a mess

agree rerack

One of those things, anything but a tournament with a director, rerack. No sense arguing over it when both players dropped the ball. Ignore any rules and do the gentleman's thing. With a director I might yield to his decision if he got involved.

Happened to me when I went to a hall I hadn't been to in decades. A pool room detective came over and wanted to play a few games of one-pocket, no offer of a bet. After a few games he accidentally swapped sides after several innings of a game. Considering I had just moved things to favor "my side" taking the wrong pocket was about as good as ball in hand anywhere on the table. I grinned to myself and didn't say anything. We were playing even and this gave him a large lead. It wasn't until he was shooting near the end of the rack that he realized his error. I just told him the stakes we were playing for it didn't matter.

He is a noted player, gambler, author, room owner, and member of this forum. Somehow I don't remember his name though! Anyway, anybody can have a braincramp. I would have shut him down had much money been involved. As it was, it was just funny!

Hu

Player B is on the hill

Player B has 7 Balls. And, it's his shot next.

Karate-

i did pretty much the same thing.
i shot a ball in my opponents pocket and he immediately told me so.
he got to keep the ball and he took over shooting.
i did point out that i played good position on ball for him to shoot in his pocket.
oh well.

lfigueroa said:

ahem, let me see if I can describe this accurately:

Player A lays down a good break to the right pocket putting a couple of balls in front of his pocket

Player B jacks up and plays a safety that freezes the CB to the top of the stack and drives two balls in front of his pocket

Player A then takes an intentional foul but mistakenly puts a penny on the left pocket

Player B takes an intentional back, sees the first penny on the left pocket and mistakenly puts his penny on the right-side pocket

Player A shoots a safety up table but leaves a shot

Player B takes the shot, runs four into the left pocket, pays the owed ball, but then puts the remaining three balls into the right side tray where he originally put his penny by mistake and removes the penny

Player A, a few shots later, gets loose, sees the remaining penny, and runs four into the left pocket and plays safe. (Player B is not paying attention and says nothing during the run.) When Player A goes to put the balls in his tray he suddenly realizes he shot at the wrong pocket and Player B has his balls on the wrong side

What’s the call?

And yes, these are two pretty good, experienced players who just weren’t paying enough attention and got fooled by the pennies.

Lou Figueroa

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Very good players, consistently, can't seem to be bothered, by any of the score keeping , spotting , etc, extraneous parts of the game .
It is probably this tunnel vision ability , that allows them to consistently shoot better. It also is a pain in the arse, to anyone who is not them, or like them.
My feeling is , they both made so many mistakes , the game should just be played over.
There is not much reason, to try to figure out, a cluster plunge.

book collector said:

Very good players, consistently, can't seem to be bothered, by any of the score keeping , spotting , etc, extraneous parts of the game .
It is probably this tunnel vision ability , that allows them to consistently shoot better. It also is a pain in the arse, to anyone who is not them, or like them.
My feeling is , they both made so many mistakes , the game should just be played over.
There is not much reason, to try to figure out, a cluster plunge.

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Bob Jewett said:

That's all well and good and maybe even a reasonable thing to do, but I think both players should lose and the stake -- both sides of the bet -- should go towards buying a round for the house. This outta be made a house rule if it's not already. They both need to learn a lesson.:thumbup:

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I wasn’t a sleeper when I gambled...I felt the careless ones hadn’t bet enough of their
own money.

I kinda like Bob’s idea of buying a round for the house for snoozing.
I was watching a match...in a weekend tournament,,,so the money was pretty good...
...two former Canuck champs....the three of us are good friends...9 ball was made on the
break....they didn’t notice...the next guy shot and missed...the breaker got all the way to
the 5-ball before he wondered where the 9-ball was...neither one knew..so they re-racked.

I told them after....I also told them that I guessed they didn’t think nine balls ahead...

For whatever reason this kind of thing happens often in One Pocket. My first rule of One Pocket is to always know the score and which pocket is yours. There have been too many times in One Pocket tourneys where a player runs out into the wrong pocket. Sometimes his opponent is unaware of it and just gives him the game and at other times he is waiting to tell him he ran all those balls in the wrong pocket and you lose the game. This is when it gets sticky.

The way we played in many tournaments is that if you let a guy run out in your pocket, he wins the game. You MUST tell him after he shoots the first ball into your pocket. In the situation described above there are two alternatives that can be used to settle any dispute. The first is to declare the game a non-game and start over with the same player breaking. The second alternative is to award the first ball made to his opponent and spot the rest of the balls. Different tournaments with different promoters and TD's have used different rules over the course of my career.

The other thing I've seen quite a bit is that a player runs out and begins to throw the balls on the table and bring the remaining balls in for the next rack, when he is informed by his opponent that he owed a ball and now has lost the game. This one can also get tricky. We have sometimes ruled that if the opponent was aware of this and said nothing, waiting until the player was throwing the balls on the table, it was too late. If it happened too quickly for him to say anything it could well be ruled loss of game. This is a judgement call and I won't go into how I determine a ruling on a situation like this. Let's just say I look for intent.

ALWAYS know the score and ALWAYS know your pocket and you won't have this happen. If you're not sure which pocket is yours (after a series of safes) it's okay to ask. All of us have shot at the wrong pocket!

This is why I always use nickels.

PoolBum said:

This is why I always use nickels.

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Yes. Thomas Jefferson was an avid 1 pocket player and never once forgot his pocket. Good of you to pay homage to the first man to kick cross-bank a ball that was hanging in his opponents pocket.

But really...I use dimes myself just because I happened to have a bunch. They’re small and unobtrusive while still standing out much better than a penny.

Here's a little tip for you when playing One Pocket. Rather than line coins up along the bottom rail to keep track of fouls, you can use one penny only and make it far easier. No need to have several coins on the rail which can get confusing and a coin might even fall to the floor (seen that more than once).

Just move the single coin one diamond each time there is a subsequent foul. Start at the Diamond above your pocket and move the coin one diamond up the rail for each ball you owe. That way you only need a single coin to keep track of how many you owe.

jay helfert said:

Here's a little tip for you when playing One Pocket. Rather than line coins up along the bottom rail to keep track of fouls, you can use one penny only and make it far easier. No need to have several coins on the rail which can get confusing and a coin might even fall to the floor (seen that more than once).

Just move the single coin one diamond each time there is a subsequent foul. Start at the Diamond above your pocket and move the coin one diamond up the rail for each ball you owe. That way you only need a single coin to keep track of how many you owe.

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The penny tends to slide around too much when I've played people who do it this way. And for some reason it's never to my benefit.

Z-Nole said:

The penny tends to slide around too much when I've played people who do it this way. And for some reason it's never to my benefit.

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Lol this is the way I do it. It does definitely require vigilance though.

Wait, what?... Player B ran four in the left pocket, spots one owed, and
puts the remaining three in the RIGHT tray?

Ronnie always said : Always know what the score is.