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Question regarding Jr Players Instruction? - 10-28-2017, 07:31 PM

Hello everyone-

We have just recently started a Jr program here and I was wondering what is the order in which people think we should instruct new players? Is it most important to work on grip and bridge or grip and stance or straightness of stroke? A lot of kids have so many different flaws but what do you think is the list of importance to address first?

Remember these kids are ages 6 to 17. We started out the first week with 5 kids, 2nd week was 6 or 7 kids and now into the 3rd week we have almost 15 kids showing up. We do an hour of instruction and then an hour of play. Instruction has consisted of our higher quality players each going to a table and assisting the kids with instruction and guidance in various skills.

Nobody is a certified billiard instructor even though most are good enough players to be certified based on their skill levels. Thanks for any assistance that may be offered. My goal with this program is to get a Jr program strong enough to be part of the BEF and be able to participate in the bigger national events. We are based out of southern NH.

Thanks
Chris
  
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10-28-2017, 10:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedog69 View Post
Hello everyone-

We have just recently started a Jr program here and I was wondering what is the order in which people think we should instruct new players? Is it most important to work on grip and bridge or grip and stance or straightness of stroke? A lot of kids have so many different flaws but what do you think is the list of importance to address first?

Remember these kids are ages 6 to 17. We started out the first week with 5 kids, 2nd week was 6 or 7 kids and now into the 3rd week we have almost 15 kids showing up. We do an hour of instruction and then an hour of play. Instruction has consisted of our higher quality players each going to a table and assisting the kids with instruction and guidance in various skills.

Nobody is a certified billiard instructor even though most are good enough players to be certified based on their skill levels. Thanks for any assistance that may be offered. My goal with this program is to get a Jr program strong enough to be part of the BEF and be able to participate in the bigger national events. We are based out of southern NH.

Thanks
Chris
Start with the fundamentals.

Study the table.
Find the aim line.
Commit to a shot.
Stop Thinking.
Stance.
Grip.
Bridge.
Stroke.
Sight OB to Pocket Last.
Shoot.
Follow Though.
Remain down.
Observe the action of the balls.
Analyze.
Correct.
Relax.
Have Fun.


Shoot Pool
Not People

Last edited by mchnhed; 10-28-2017 at 10:07 PM.
  
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10-28-2017, 10:47 PM

Chris...Go to Ayer and ask Roy Pasteur to come do a clinic for your junior players. He might even do a small clinic for the older kids who are "teaching" the younger ones. That will give you some "ammo" for teaching them for a few months at least! The next time I get up to New England, I'll try to come up and volunteer some time with your juniors too! Best of luck with your program.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com


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10-28-2017, 10:51 PM

These are children. That is FAR too complicated a list for the younger kids, but certainly okay for the older ones (14-17).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchnhed View Post
Start with the fundamentals.

Study the table.
Find the aim line.
Commit to a shot.
Stop Thinking.
Stance.
Grip.
Bridge.
Stroke.
Sight OB to Pocket Last.
Shoot.
Follow Though.
Remain down.
Observe the action of the balls.
Analyze.
Correct.
Relax.
Have Fun.


PBIA Master Instructor
  
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Teaching Kids
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Teaching Kids - 10-28-2017, 11:33 PM

The list is way to complicated and dry for kids. In the program I run for high schoolers we primarily focus on having fun, and doing our Set, Pause Finish process.

We start finding their vision center, their template, and then we work on practicing SPF on every shot. After about 10 minutes we do a trick shot or two. Then back to the Mother Drills. We do most of our instruction by showing, as in do it like this rather than overcomplicating things.

We also play a king of the hill game called one ball which I can send the rules to you if you want.

Every practice we focus on three things, having fun, saying nice things about yourself, and Set, Pause, Finish.

As they play or practice, we show them easier, better ways to do things.
  
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10-29-2017, 12:16 AM

Hi Scott-

One step ahead of you my friend. I have been talking to Roy. He told me he would sit down with me if we start getting a consistent flow of Jr's in our program. I want to get in under his umbrella. He is definitely the cream of the crop when it comes to Jr leagues. As I told him I am giving enough into the game and cannot afford to spend the money to become a certified instructor under him. This is about trying to get the kids off the fancy thinking box, develop a skill and new friends and help save our dying sport! It is a shame when you go to the Jr NH State 9 Ball Championships and there is no players from your state. So I am trying to change that.. Roy is definitely the man to reach for to obtain that goal. I wish you well my friend. I don't know if you remember me but you and I closed the Billiard Cafe in Ayer a few years ago with a lesson lol!
  
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10-29-2017, 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfinkelstein3 View Post
The list is way to complicated and dry for kids. In the program I run for high schoolers we primarily focus on having fun, and doing our Set, Pause Finish process.

We start finding their vision center, their template, and then we work on practicing SPF on every shot. After about 10 minutes we do a trick shot or two. Then back to the Mother Drills. We do most of our instruction by showing, as in do it like this rather than overcomplicating things.

We also play a king of the hill game called one ball which I can send the rules to you if you want.

Every practice we focus on three things, having fun, saying nice things about yourself, and Set, Pause, Finish.

As they play or practice, we show them easier, better ways to do things.
Hi Mark-

I love that response I would love to have a phone conversation with you and talk about this further. If that is something you wish to do then send me a PM and I will reply with my phone # sir. Thanks again for the info. Also very interested in your 1 ball game. Also when we play we have fun and show the kids how to have respect for the other player. We have them shake hands and look at the player instead of nonchalantly just shaking hands like most players do today. Teach them to be respectful and if they lose they lose with dignity and respect. We are doing the best we can with the limited tools we have available to us. Thanks for your comments. I look forward to hearing from you.
  
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10-29-2017, 12:23 PM

Chris...Of course I remember you! We had your lesson in the private room.
We also met up a time or two at the SBE!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedog69 View Post
Hi Scott-

One step ahead of you my friend. I have been talking to Roy. He told me he would sit down with me if we start getting a consistent flow of Jr's in our program. I want to get in under his umbrella. He is definitely the cream of the crop when it comes to Jr leagues. As I told him I am giving enough into the game and cannot afford to spend the money to become a certified instructor under him. This is about trying to get the kids off the fancy thinking box, develop a skill and new friends and help save our dying sport! It is a shame when you go to the Jr NH State 9 Ball Championships and there is no players from your state. So I am trying to change that.. Roy is definitely the man to reach for to obtain that goal. I wish you well my friend. I don't know if you remember me but you and I closed the Billiard Cafe in Ayer a few years ago with a lesson lol!


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10-29-2017, 12:53 PM

Fun, Confidence and Fun in that order for younger kids. If you make it too much
like a school they will block you out. You have to kinda sneak in teaching basics.
This is for kids younger than 12.

For older kids. It's having fun too but giving them confidence in their
play at the same time while actually giving them one or two specific
things to work on each session. Follow up with them the next session
on lessons from the previous session. Don't forget!

And remember letting both younger and older kids have some time
to "just play" with no coaching, just having fun and messing around
is important too... they will learn on their own from this messing around time.

Last edited by zencues.com; 10-29-2017 at 12:56 PM.
  
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10-29-2017, 09:30 PM

I guess it also depends on the childs mentality. My son who is 7 has been through the following when he started 5 months ago:

Pool hall etiquette review before we went to our first pool hall together:
chalk placement right side up
not walking in front of other players while they are shooting
no emotional outbreaks from missing shots
pool hall is not a playground
watching for other players that are already in a shot (not just going to play when someone might be in the way)
Shaking hands before and after a game
Respect the table, not damaging it
respect the cue

Mechanics/fundamentals
Approaching the shot; keeping the cue at the cue ball and the grip to his body for hand position
stepping into the shot and making his bridge
eyes on object ball
practice stroke / eyes on cue ball
pause and eyes back on object ball
shooting the ball and following through

Many tweaks along the way, strong bridge, utilizing closed vs open bridge, using a bridge for long shots....

1st day was just making the cue ball into a pocket, then within an hour, making an object ball into a pocket (ball was pretty much in the pocket)
then onto making that same ball without scratching
stop shots
the list goes on and on

Here he is at 4-5 months of playing with a game against SVB:
https://youtu.be/duqmG5eV7VA

Last edited by TEAM SLO; 10-29-2017 at 09:36 PM.
  
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10-30-2017, 05:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedog69 View Post
Hello everyone-

We have just recently started a Jr program here and I was wondering what is the order in which people think we should instruct new players? Is it most important to work on grip and bridge or grip and stance or straightness of stroke? A lot of kids have so many different flaws but what do you think is the list of importance to address first?

Remember these kids are ages 6 to 17. We started out the first week with 5 kids, 2nd week was 6 or 7 kids and now into the 3rd week we have almost 15 kids showing up. We do an hour of instruction and then an hour of play. Instruction has consisted of our higher quality players each going to a table and assisting the kids with instruction and guidance in various skills.

Nobody is a certified billiard instructor even though most are good enough players to be certified based on their skill levels. Thanks for any assistance that may be offered. My goal with this program is to get a Jr program strong enough to be part of the BEF and be able to participate in the bigger national events. We are based out of southern NH.

Thanks
Chris
What room do you do this out of? There is actually a youth league in NH already that Roy is part of (since you seem to know him already), out of Crow's Nest, although I don't know if that has been kept up or lost players. My son has been playing in the Jr program in MA for several years and Roy wants him to get certified as an instructor when he turns 18. He would probably love to come visit your group, he gets along great with the kids and is good enough to know what the need to work on and get them interested in playing.

You are right about the state events when there are no or few kids from the state playing, there is a core group of kids in NE that play, and most of them are out of MA that travel to other states.


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10-30-2017, 07:25 AM

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Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
What room do you do this out of? There is actually a youth league in NH already that Roy is part of (since you seem to know him already), out of Crow's Nest, although I don't know if that has been kept up or lost players. My son has been playing in the Jr program in MA for several years and Roy wants him to get certified as an instructor when he turns 18. He would probably love to come visit your group, he gets along great with the kids and is good enough to know what the need to work on and get them interested in playing.

You are right about the state events when there are no or few kids from the state playing, there is a core group of kids in NE that play, and most of them are out of MA that travel to other states.
Hello-

Yes I have seen you and your son at various events. I have known Roy quite a few years and hope to get hooked up with his program. You were at our pool room Busters with your son doing a lesson with Mike. The Crow's Nest is approx an hour away and is the only Jr League I know of in the state. I am not sure if it is still functioning or not. A lot of parents did not want there children playing pool because of the perceived environment that has given pool a bad name. But Busters allows us to play prior to the general public coming in so there is no alcohol served. On top of that Busters pride's itself in being a family oriented pool room. It has a very friendly atmosphere and friendly staff. In all the years I have been going there I can't recall one incidence of violence.
  
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10-30-2017, 10:04 AM

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Originally Posted by freedog69 View Post
Hello-

Yes I have seen you and your son at various events. I have known Roy quite a few years and hope to get hooked up with his program. You were at our pool room Busters with your son doing a lesson with Mike. The Crow's Nest is approx an hour away and is the only Jr League I know of in the state. I am not sure if it is still functioning or not. A lot of parents did not want there children playing pool because of the perceived environment that has given pool a bad name. But Busters allows us to play prior to the general public coming in so there is no alcohol served. On top of that Busters pride's itself in being a family oriented pool room. It has a very friendly atmosphere and friendly staff. In all the years I have been going there I can't recall one incidence of violence.
Yea, the idea of pool being a shady sport played by shady people in shady places is not easy to get rid of. Does not help that every time you see a place on TV or movies where you go to get drugs or find a criminal, they are playing pool there LOL. Even though if you look at it in the early years you see people in suits and high class people playing.

I'll send you a PM so we can chat about this, seems like if you get a dozen kids there, your main thing now is to keep them interested and the parents involved in taking the time to bring them and to bring them to various events as well as maybe learn a bit about billiards outside of "go to the pool hall to find the bad guy" or the fact that most players are hustlers out to cheat you.

I am going to arrange a few more lessons with Mike, maybe we can do a mutually beneficial time so it can be when the kids are there so they can meet a pro and maybe my son to chat about how his pool playing has gone and helped him. I fully credit his pool playing and learning from good people to his personality now, proper billiards instruction will teach a lot, patience, etiquette, politeness, honesty (I have yet to see my son try to hid a foul from someone), focus, concentration, etc...


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11-23-2017, 02:04 AM

TEAM SLO...Your son is exceptionally well trained for such a young age. Congratulations...you are doing exactly the right things to train him! How fun for him to have won a game against a world champion...something you both will remember forever! Jin has great potential to become a great player. I hope you will get him into the BEF junior national tournament next summer in New Orleans! I'm sure he'd do well. Keep doing what you're doing!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEAM SLO View Post
I guess it also depends on the childs mentality. My son who is 7 has been through the following when he started 5 months ago:

Pool hall etiquette review before we went to our first pool hall together:
chalk placement right side up
not walking in front of other players while they are shooting
no emotional outbreaks from missing shots
pool hall is not a playground
watching for other players that are already in a shot (not just going to play when someone might be in the way)
Shaking hands before and after a game
Respect the table, not damaging it
respect the cue

Mechanics/fundamentals
Approaching the shot; keeping the cue at the cue ball and the grip to his body for hand position
stepping into the shot and making his bridge
eyes on object ball
practice stroke / eyes on cue ball
pause and eyes back on object ball
shooting the ball and following through

Many tweaks along the way, strong bridge, utilizing closed vs open bridge, using a bridge for long shots....

1st day was just making the cue ball into a pocket, then within an hour, making an object ball into a pocket (ball was pretty much in the pocket)
then onto making that same ball without scratching
stop shots
the list goes on and on

Here he is at 4-5 months of playing with a game against SVB:
https://youtu.be/duqmG5eV7VA


PBIA Master Instructor

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11-23-2017, 06:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedog69 View Post
Hello everyone-

We have just recently started a Jr program here and I was wondering what is the order in which people think we should instruct new players? Is it most important to work on grip and bridge or grip and stance or straightness of stroke? A lot of kids have so many different flaws but what do you think is the list of importance to address first?

Remember these kids are ages 6 to 17. We started out the first week with 5 kids, 2nd week was 6 or 7 kids and now into the 3rd week we have almost 15 kids showing up. We do an hour of instruction and then an hour of play. Instruction has consisted of our higher quality players each going to a table and assisting the kids with instruction and guidance in various skills.

Nobody is a certified billiard instructor even though most are good enough players to be certified based on their skill levels. Thanks for any assistance that may be offered. My goal with this program is to get a Jr program strong enough to be part of the BEF and be able to participate in the bigger national events. We are based out of southern NH.

Thanks
Chris
Where are you located? I'm in the NYC area (Long Island) and would love to have someone give instructions to my 13 year old. (I'm 64 and set in my ways, not a good instructor, LOL) At last years Expo he met Jerry Breisath, who worked with him for a whole day with some good results. I'd like to keep it going. Me, I'm a D+/C and planning on taking lessons with Tony Robles if we can work out a mutual schedule.
  
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