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ideologist
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01-04-2016, 09:22 AM

All ties go to the runner.


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01-04-2016, 09:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ideologist View Post
All ties go to the runner.
BTW, I've never seen an umpire call "tie, runner is safe". This must be a pee wee rule


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  (#18)
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01-04-2016, 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom In Cincy View Post
BTW, I've never seen an umpire call "tie, runner is safe". This must be a pee wee rule
I know, it's just a common expression nowadays. I'd have to laugh if they called a runner safe due to a tie in an MLB game.


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  (#19)
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01-04-2016, 10:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJDinPHX View Post
Mikey..Please show me how that can possibly apply to two players, playing a normal, even up game?...That rule would ONLY apply to a 'prop game', of some sort, where weight is involved!..Any rules drafted under those conditions, are NOT rules per say, and will always be subject to conjecture, interpretation, or argument!

Steve Booth (at 1P.org) is the author of those rules, and I can almost quote them ver batum!..Steve came up with them strictly for the benefit of the gamblers among us!...He has often expressed concern, that they may not be equitable, or even fair, in all situations!..He has always encouraged everyone to agree to the grey areas before the coin is flipped! Would you not agree, this is a very grey area?

PS..My point is not about whether "shooter wins", or not! (which by the way, I lean towards 'he does')..It is about the fact that there are NO legitimate, clear cut rules in place, to cover that occurance, because it can only happen in a 'prop game'!
I don't understand your objection, SJD. The original poster gave a specific handicapped game as an example. What is YOUR opinion on what should happen in that specific example?

Every gambling and handicapped matchup can't go through every line of possibilities before they play. Something is bound to come up that they didn't think of. It happens. If there's already a rule (yes, via 1pocket.org) that covers this EXACT situation, what is your objection? That because it's a prop game, and even though the one pocket.org rules state that one pocket can undergo different handicapping situation, that the rules are null and void???

The only site dedicated to one pocket got the most knowledgeable one pocket players to look at, modify, and agree upon a proposed set of rules, and we should just ignore them and say, "agree upon the gray areas."

Rule 3.2, since it's written, is supposed to take this situation out of the gray area. Or do you simply disagree with the rule? In my humble opinion, this is the best written rule on this exact situation.


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  (#20)
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01-04-2016, 05:28 PM

Yes, I did compile the rules for One Pocket for OnePocket.org, but I did not do it just off the top of my own head -- I worked really hard to get input from every major One Pocket tournament director I could contact, and I referenced all the prior written One Pocket rules I could find (not many -- but there were some) and I worked with Grady Mathews, Freddy the Beard and all the other members of OnePocket.org to fine tune the rules.

No, I don't consider the typical ball-count handicapping in One Pocket to be any kind of "proposition game" at all -- I would consider normal ball-count handicaps to be a totally normal part of One Pocket play. If the ball-counts got really odd or were mixed with gaff handicaps such as shooting one-handed, using the bridge every shot, etc., etc. -- that would be a different story.

Interestingly, the oldest published rules I found for One Pocket were the rules developed for Johnston City and distributed by the Jansco Brothers beginning in 1961, and guess what?? The exact rule you guys are asking about was already there!! It would not have ever come up in the Johnston City tournaments because there never was any handicapping in those tournaments. However, everyone knows that the side gambling matches were just as much a part of the Johnston City tradition as was the tournament (some would say even bigger!), and certainly the kind of handicap situations for which that rule was written could have come up (way back when), hence it appears in the earliest modern rules I have found.


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  (#21)
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01-04-2016, 09:11 PM

I've had good players give me 8/5 or 9/5. How is that a prop bet? With that type of spot you could certainly shoot the game winning ball for both players. So in that case the shooter wins.
  
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  (#22)
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01-05-2016, 05:26 AM

Shooter wins.

Doesn't matter if the shooting player makes 14 balls in the opponent pocket and 1 that drops dead last in his own pocket . Shooter wins. He is shooting... hence, the name Shooter. You see, the shooter shot the shot and reached their number while they were shooting their inning and could legally still continue shooting even if they hadn't made their number.... cuz, you know, they shot a legal shot as the shooter.

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  (#23)
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01-05-2016, 06:32 AM

This issue was discussed many years ago and late Grady Mathews provided clarification/his point of view on this issue.

Before the One pocket.Org published the rules, it solicited the opinions/input of the posters on it`s web site.

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  (#24)
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01-05-2016, 08:14 AM

"3.2 In the event that a player pockets both their own game winning ball, and their opponent’s game winning ball, both on the same legal stroke, then the shooting player wins. There are no ‘ties’, and it does not matter which ball drops first, as long as they both drop as a result of the same stroke."

Since it is impossible for 3.2 to come up in any tournament where there is no spot, it would be wise for players to agree before a match to follow this rule if there is a spot.
  
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  (#25)
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01-07-2016, 10:30 AM

Shooter.

It doesn't matter if you sink one for your opponent if you made your winning ball... YOU'RE at the table. Shooter wins.
  
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