AzBilliards.com Looking for a formula for 1st round matches (Winners & Loser) when there are byes
 Looking for a formula for 1st round matches (Winners & Loser) when there are byes
 (#1) calcuttaman Pool Player   Status: Offline Posts: 415 vCash: 500 iTrader: 2 / 100% Join Date: Aug 2005 Looking for a formula for 1st round matches (Winners & Loser) when there are byes - 01-04-2016, 07:22 AM I'm just not good at writing formulas. Here's an easy situation. If there are 9 players, I know there is going to be one 1st round winners side match and in the losers side 1st round of play (Vying for 9/12th place) there will be one match. How can I write that in a formula? Of course we're always assuming the byes are spread equally.

 (#2) skip100 AzB Silver Member     Status: Offline Posts: 1,878 vCash: 500 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Golden State 01-04-2016, 07:50 AM
(#3)
calcuttaman
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01-04-2016, 10:05 AM

Quote:
I don't need 9 person brackets. Just want the formula. Something like...

9 players - 8 = 1 (number of 1st rnd matches)

That's a very simplified version and of course doesn't work for all scenarios.

 bye chart
 (#4) Tom In Cincy AKA SactownTom     Status: Offline Posts: 3,238 vCash: 1140 iTrader: 2 / 100% Blog Entries: 8 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sacramento, CA bye chart - 01-04-2016, 10:20 AM http://www.playcsipool.com/uploads/7...ment_chart.pdf Byes are assigned to the charts evenly from top to bottom. For example; 16 player bracket. only 14 players, one bye gets spot 16 and the other gets 8. if someone shows up in time, they are assigned the last number, in this example it would be number 8 "In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves." From Jennifer Just remember all posts are, of course... In My Humble OpinionAge= Been Playing since I was 17... 53 years ago Cue = Pete Ohmen (Melbourne, FL) www.omencues.com Hours of Play per week = 8+ Last edited by Tom In Cincy; 01-04-2016 at 10:25 AM.
 (#5) AtLarge AzB Gold Member   Status: Offline Posts: 10,839 vCash: 500 iTrader: 77 / 100% Join Date: Apr 2008 01-04-2016, 10:22 AM If the number of players is not a multiple of 2 (i.e., not 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, etc.), then go up to the next higher multiple of 2. The number of byes is that next higher multiple of 2 minus the actual number of players. Examples: • 9 players. Next-higher multiple of 2 is 16. Number of first-round byes is 16 - 9 = 7. So the number of first-round players is 9 - 7 = 2, and the number of first-round matches is 2 ÷ 2 = 1. The winner of that match will join the 7 byes to create a full winners'-side next round of 8 players. • 19 players. Next-higher multiple of 2 is 32. Number of first-round byes is 32 - 19 = 13. So the number of first-round players is 19 - 13 = 6, and the number of first-round matches is 6 ÷ 2 = 3. The winners from those 3 matches will join the 13 byes to create a full winners'-side next round of 16 players. • 87 players. Next-higher multiple of 2 is 128. Number of first-round byes is 128 - 87 = 41. So the number of first-round players is 87 - 41 = 46, and the number of first-round matches is 46 ÷ 2 = 23. The winners from those 23 matches will join the 41 byes to create a full winners'-side next round of 64 players.
(#6)
Cornerman
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01-04-2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by calcuttaman I don't need 9 person brackets. Just want the formula. Something like... 9 players - 8 = 1 (number of 1st rnd matches) That's a very simplified version and of course doesn't work for all scenarios.
Let's see if this attachment works. If it doesn't, I'll send it to you.

And if you want a formula, the first number should always be the next base-2 number above the number of players.

E.g.

For 9 players, the next base-2 number is 16 (2^4).

16 - 9 = 7 byes. There is a logical method on how to put the byes in the chart. NEVER draw in the byes.

Freddie <~~~ can beat the bye... sometimes
Attached Images
 Bye Chart - Freddie Agnir 29OCT2001.pdf (62.6 KB, 39 views)

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Name: Freddie Agnir
Shooting Cue: 2017 Tascarella (w/blokid extension) or Schuler SC-250
Breaking Cue: BK Rush

Playing time: just a hair above zero
--------

"I don't care if you win, just cover the spread!"

- Annie Potts (Memaw from Young Sheldon)

 (#7) ElLeon Headshot     Status: Offline Posts: 369 vCash: 500 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Pacific NW 01-04-2016, 10:46 AM For a second here I was hoping this was created my my local LO! But that would have been too forward thinking. The ol' pull names from a baseball hat and write them in on crate paper will work forever, just like Social Security. • Stirling Moss once said “There are two things no man will admit he cannot do well: drive and make love.” • But then smarter Albert Einstein said, “Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.”
(#8)
calcuttaman
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01-04-2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by AtLarge • 87 players. Next-higher multiple of 2 is 128. Number of first-round byes is 128 - 87 = 41. So the number of first-round players is 87 - 41 = 46, and the number of first-round matches is 46 ÷ 2 = 23. The winners from those 23 matches will join the 41 byes to create a full winners'-side next round of 64 players.
I'll give this a shot....

(Total players - (Next highest chart size - Total Players)) / 2

(87 - (128-87)) / 2 = 23

Edit - I'm incorrect on losers formula
And there should always be the same amount of matches (23) in the first round of the losers side.

Apparently its pretty easy to figure out the winners side matches. But, how do you figure out the 1st side of the losers bracket?

Check this example out http://ctsondemand.com/mobilebracket...a-d309efd31f64

64 person bracket, 9 byes with 7 matches in the 1st round of the losers side. How do you formula that?

Last edited by calcuttaman; 01-04-2016 at 11:40 AM.

(#9)
Cornerman
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01-04-2016, 11:44 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by calcuttaman I'll give this a shot.... (Total players - (Next highest chart size - Total Players)) / 2 (87 - (128-87)) / 2 = 23

Formulae

For 9-16 players:

P= Number of Players

[(16/2 -(16-P)] = N (Number of 1st round Matches)

Quote:
 Edit - I'm incorrect on losers formula And there should always be the same amount of matches (23) in the first round of the losers side. Apparently its pretty easy to figure out the winners side matches. But, how do you figure out the 1st side of the losers bracket? Check this example out http://ctsondemand.com/mobilebracket...a-d309efd31f64 64 person bracket, 9 byes with 7 matches in the 1st round of the losers side. How do you formula that?
1st round loser's side? You can only have 1st round loser-side matches if you have two adjacent filled (no byes) 1st round brackets (we can call them couplets or whatever) that the losers play each other in the 1st round of the loser side.

In the original case:

B = # of byes

(16/4 - B) = LSFR (loser round first round), Minimum=0

(64/4 - B) = 16 - 9 = 7 matches in the first round of loser's side

--------

Name: Freddie Agnir
Shooting Cue: 2017 Tascarella (w/blokid extension) or Schuler SC-250
Breaking Cue: BK Rush

Playing time: just a hair above zero
--------

"I don't care if you win, just cover the spread!"

- Annie Potts (Memaw from Young Sheldon)

Last edited by Cornerman; 01-04-2016 at 12:01 PM.

(#10)
calcuttaman
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01-04-2016, 11:56 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cornerman 1st round loser's side? You can only have 1st round loser-side matches if you have two adjacent filled (no byes) 1st round brackets (we can call them couplets or whatever) that the losers play each other in the 1st round of the loser side.
In the example in my post from Ctsondemand there is a 64 person bracket, 55 teams. Using yours and At Large's formula its easy to come up with 23 winners side matches.

But what I really want is how to determine those 7 matches in the first round of the losers side.

(#11)
Cornerman
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01-04-2016, 12:02 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by calcuttaman In the example in my post from Ctsondemand there is a 64 person bracket, 55 teams. Using yours and At Large's formula its easy to come up with 23 winners side matches. But what I really want is how to determine those 7 matches in the first round of the losers side.
Check my edit with formula

64 bracket
9 byes

Bracket size/4 - Byes

or

64/4 - 9

= 7

Once a 1/4 of the field are byes, there will be no 1st round loser's matches.

--------

Name: Freddie Agnir
Shooting Cue: 2017 Tascarella (w/blokid extension) or Schuler SC-250
Breaking Cue: BK Rush

Playing time: just a hair above zero
--------

"I don't care if you win, just cover the spread!"

- Annie Potts (Memaw from Young Sheldon)

(#12)
calcuttaman
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01-04-2016, 12:28 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cornerman Check my edit with formula
Thank you.

(#13)
Cornerman
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01-04-2016, 12:30 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by calcuttaman Thank you.
This assumes that the byes were distributed evenly per my or TomCincy's post (or any other post that had an even distribution of byes).

Good luck,

Freddie

--------

Name: Freddie Agnir
Shooting Cue: 2017 Tascarella (w/blokid extension) or Schuler SC-250
Breaking Cue: BK Rush

Playing time: just a hair above zero
--------

"I don't care if you win, just cover the spread!"

- Annie Potts (Memaw from Young Sheldon)

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