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Bob Jewett
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08-25-2019, 10:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
... Like I keep saying, an improply stroked cue ball is what leads to skids. ...
Skids necessarily are do to excessive friction between the cue ball and object ball. I think there is no way that "improper stroking" can cause that.

I can produce skid by making sure chalk is at the contact point. I can then get a skid with a perfectly fine stroke.

George Onoda's article on skid, available on-line and linked through Dr. Dave's Cling/Skid/Kick page referenced above, is a good start.


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08-25-2019, 11:09 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
C'mon guys. You want rulers to start measuring here?
He can use his ruler, Iíll go find my yard stick.

Has anyone ever gotten a skid, and still gotten the position they we intending to get? Iíve never seen it happen. Iíve never had it happen. Talk all the Ďat the momentí it happens all you want. The stroke breaks down, and incorrectly hits the cue ball from where the desired intent was. Itís a stroke/mental flaw that can be overcome.

When was the last time Ronnie OíSullivan complained about the conditions causing extra skids? He learned it was a breakdown on him, not the conditions.
  
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08-25-2019, 11:11 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
He can use his ruler, Iíll go find my yard stick.

Has anyone ever gotten a skid, and still gotten the position they we intending to get? Iíve never seen it happen. Iíve never had it happen. Talk all the Ďat the momentí it happens all you want. The stroke breaks down, and incorrectly hits the cue ball from where the desired intent was. Itís a stroke/mental flaw that can be overcome.

When was the last time Ronnie OíSullivan complained about the conditions causing extra skids? He learned it was a breakdown on him, not the conditions.
I wonder if what youíre referring to as a skid is different from what others are referring to. Can you describe what happens when thereís a skid?
  
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08-25-2019, 11:13 AM

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Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Skids necessarily are do to excessive friction between the cue ball and object ball. I think there is no way that "improper stroking" can cause that.

I can produce skid by making sure chalk is at the contact point. I can then get a skid with a perfectly fine stroke.

George Onoda's article on skid, available on-line and linked through Dr. Dave's Cling/Skid/Kick page referenced above, is a good start.

By the application of the chalk at the contact point you have changed what the conditions are for a proper stroke. Itís a test designed to showcase, to the maximum, what a skid is. But the shot can still be stroked in such a manner that it doesnít skid.
  
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08-25-2019, 11:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
I wonder if what you’re referring to as a skid is different from what others are referring to. Can you describe what happens when there’s a skid?
A skid/kick is when prolonged contact/extra friction causes the cue ball and object ball behaves in a manner that causes one or both balls to possibly bounce, a distinct sound difference. Along with both balls to not follow their respective lines of contact. Differing from throw which has no difference in sound from a normal shot. The sound a skid makes is nearly the same as a ball rolling along a table and hitting a broken seam between the slates.

Last edited by Hits 'em Hard; 08-25-2019 at 11:33 AM.
  
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Question 08-25-2019, 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
A skid/kick is when prolonged contact/extra friction causes the cue ball and object ball behaves in a manner that causes one or both balls to possibly bounce, a distinct sound difference. Along with both balls to not follow their respective lines of contact. Differing from throw which has no difference in sound from a normal shot. The sound a skid makes is nearly the same as a ball rolling along a table and hitting a broken seam between the slates.
Are you saying, in your terms, that a skid/kick is ALL stroke related? That dirty balls have no influence? Not tryin to stir a hornet's nest , just trying to see where you're at.
  
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Black-Balled
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08-25-2019, 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
When was the last time Ronnie OíSullivan complained about the conditions causing extra skids? He learned it was a breakdown on him, not the conditions.
Some shots are more prone to skid than others and one can reduce (eliminate) the likelihood of a skid by shooting with a particular stroke/ shot speed.

Failure to choose the right stroke a stroke breakdown.

Are you really contending that there is a twitch or something at the end? As in bad contact between cue and cue ball?
  
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Patrick Johnson
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08-25-2019, 12:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Some shots are more prone to skid than others and one can reduce (eliminate) the likelihood of a skid by shooting with a particular stroke/ shot speed.
Sounds to me like you're talking about throw, which can be increased by slower speed, fuller hit, less spin, sliding CB, etc. or reduced/eliminated with things like higher speed, more spin, or "gearing" spin.

I don't know of a stroke technique that can have much, if any effect on skids caused by stuff between the balls.

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08-25-2019, 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Are you saying, in your terms, that a skid/kick is ALL stroke related? That dirty balls have no influence? Not tryin to stir a hornet's nest , just trying to see where you're at.
No. Iím saying that due to the conditions in front of you, if you get a skid, it started with your poor stroke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Some shots are more prone to skid than others and one can reduce (eliminate) the likelihood of a skid by shooting with a particular stroke/ shot speed.

Failure to choose the right stroke a stroke breakdown.

Are you really contending that there is a twitch or something at the end? As in bad contact between cue and cue ball?
No. Call it a deceleration if you want. A failure of proper stroke contact.
  
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08-25-2019, 12:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Sounds to me like you're talking about throw, which can be increased by slower speed, fuller hit, less spin, sliding CB, etc. or reduced/eliminated with things like higher speed, more spin, or "gearing" spin.

I don't know of a stroke technique that can have much, if any effect on skids caused by stuff between the balls.

pj
chgo
That's what i agree with. Two different occurences and one term to convey them.
  
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08-25-2019, 12:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Sounds to me like you're talking about throw, which can be increased by slower speed, fuller hit, less spin, sliding CB, etc. or reduced/eliminated with things like higher speed, more spin, or "gearing" spin.

I don't know of a stroke technique that can have much, if any effect on skids caused by stuff between the balls.

pj
chgo
Itís nearly impossible to get a kick/skid on a shot over 60*. It is still possible to throw a ball all the way up to 89*. I donít think B.B. nor me are confused here.
  
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08-25-2019, 01:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Sounds to me like you're talking about throw, which can be increased by slower speed, fuller hit, less spin, sliding CB, etc. or reduced/eliminated with things like higher speed, more spin, or "gearing" spin.

I don't know of a stroke technique that can have much, if any effect on skids caused by stuff between the balls.

pj
chgo
Doesn’t outside English at good speed reduce the effects of chalk-spot throw/kick?
  
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08-25-2019, 01:21 PM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
Doesn’t outside English at good speed reduce the effects of chalk-spot throw/kick?
Yep, "gearing" spin negates both normal throw and skids, and it works at any speed - if you hit just the right amount of spin for the cut angle (see pic below).

pj
chgo

This pic shows gearing spin against a rail - the same principle applies for gearing spin against an object ball (picture the CB/OB contact point where the "perpendicular" line exits the CB toward the rail).

2/5 of the distance from CB center to top is also the spot to hit for instant natural roll (vertical "gearing" spin).

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Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 08-25-2019 at 01:39 PM.
  
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08-25-2019, 04:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Yep, "gearing" spin negates both normal throw and skids, and it works at any speed - if you hit just the right amount of spin for the cut angle (see pic below).

pj
chgo

This pic shows gearing spin against a rail - the same principle applies for gearing spin against an object ball (picture the CB/OB contact point where the "perpendicular" line exits the CB toward the rail).

2/5 of the distance from CB center to top is also the spot to hit for instant natural roll (vertical "gearing" spin).

Attachment 528085
Then that would be an example of how the stroke could affect skid.
  
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08-25-2019, 05:19 PM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
Then that would be an example of how the stroke could affect skid.
I suppose so, if you want to split that hair. But it actually helps to demonstrate that the cause of skids is not stroke related.

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