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CESSNA10
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Tighter pockets - 08-27-2019, 07:19 AM

I have a Brunswick 8 foot glenwood that has cavernous pockets
Is there a way to tighten them a bit without it being visually noticed
  
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08-27-2019, 07:32 AM

Subscribed, as I need to recover the table I just picked up, this would be the time to tighten things up.
  
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08-27-2019, 07:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CESSNA10 View Post
I have a Brunswick 8 foot glenwood that has cavernous pockets
Is there a way to tighten them a bit without it being visually noticed
Have a mechanic remove old cushions, do proper subrail extensions, add new cushions, new facings and rail cloth, BAM, done.


Trent from Toledo
  
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08-27-2019, 01:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo View Post
Have a mechanic remove old cushions, do proper subrail extensions, add new cushions, new facings and rail cloth, BAM, done.


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The rails are new, the table is new. Is it necessary to replace the rails
  
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08-27-2019, 03:34 PM

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Originally Posted by CESSNA10 View Post
Trent

The rails are new, the table is new. Is it necessary to replace the rails
If you want it done right and with standard size pocket facings, yes, you have to extend the subrails. This requires new cushions.

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08-27-2019, 03:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CESSNA10 View Post
I have a Brunswick 8 foot glenwood that has cavernous pockets
Is there a way to tighten them a bit without it being visually noticed
I have yet to see a 5 Pocket shimmed to 4.5 without it being noticeable. Some are better than others. I had a GC4 that was shimmed to 4.5 and it was done pretty well but it played funny trying those tight 1P banks. For 8&9 ball it was fine.
  
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08-27-2019, 04:14 PM

As Trent pointed out, the proper way to tighten the pockets is to add wood to the subrail, cut the new pocket opening, install new cushions, facings and cloth. If you simply stack facings a.k.a. "shim" the pockets, they will play dead.


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08-27-2019, 06:37 PM

Dead? With Neoprene?
  
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08-27-2019, 07:08 PM

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Dead? With Neoprene?
Doubled or tripled up, yes.


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08-27-2019, 07:40 PM

OK....Not Saying This Logic Works But Here Goes.....

If the shim (one piece) is double the thickness, would they have to be twice as hard?
Could that compensate?
So....Duro of 50 for a normal shim, but twice the thickness use Duro 100.


Before you all shoot me.....

I don't think it is a linear difference that see-saws values.
If that was true...a triple thick shim (one piece) would have to be Duro 150?


To the OP....when you say the pockets are cavernous.....
What is the measurement of the opening?
IMHO...5” Pockets are the best for real world playing.


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08-27-2019, 08:17 PM

The facings are harder than the cushions. Stacking them up increases the area around the pocket that is harder than the cushion. When the ball hits this area it will not rebound that same as it does when it strikes the cushion. Hence, a dead spot. Make sense?


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08-27-2019, 09:19 PM

OK then reverse the thought....

Double thick shim (one piece) half as hard.
Duro 25 (If normal shim is Duro 50).

Triple thick shim (one piece) 1/3 as hard.
Duro 12.5?

Not saying this works but if a two piece, double shimmed Pocket plays ”dead” then the softer, double thick, but one piece, lower Duro number shim should be more bouncy?


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08-27-2019, 11:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchnhed View Post
OK then reverse the thought....

Double thick shim (one piece) half as hard.
Dura 25 (If normal shim is Dura 50).

Triple thick shim (one piece) 1/3 as hard.
Dura 12.5?

Not saying this works but if a two piece, double shimmed Pocket plays ”dead” then the softer, double thick, but one piece, lower Dura number shim should be more bouncy?
A standard facing is 60 durometer. The facing serves a purpose and is harder than the cushion by design. If the facing surface has too much rebound it will spit balls out like crazy. There is only one proper way to tighten up pockets and stacking facings isn't it regardless of how soft/hard they are. Don't you think if your theory were plausible it would be in practice? Stack away but the table won't play right. If you want to tighten the pockets you have to extend the subrails and install new rubber. There's no shortcut.


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08-28-2019, 02:52 AM

I am not saying to “stack” the shims.
I feel that stacking does not work because there is no mechanical connection between the two shims and energy is lost.

I am speculating that if I double/triple the thickness of the shim, but use one piece....

A: Leave the Duro at “60”. Should be same rebound?
B: Change the Duro to a Harder/Softer Duro to compensate?

You could setup a “drop test” to measure the rebound using.....
A: Standard Thickness Shim, 60 Duro
B: Double Thickness, 60 Duro
C: Triple Thickness, 60 Duro

I would think all should rebound the same?

If the rebound is not the same then you could measure the adjustment/compensation by using a softer/harder piece of shim with a different Duro number.

Example: 20% less rebound, then use a 20% harder piece.

Again....I think you should get the same rebound effect from all thickness’s of the material using the same Duro Number.

BTW....some very respected Mechanics on here advocate using Duro 50 for their shim material.

I acknowledge that using thicker shims is not the true correct way, because extended rails and cushions have the tips of the cushions in the correct place in the pocket, effecting play at the entrance to the pocket.


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08-28-2019, 04:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchnhed View Post
OK....Not Saying This Logic Works But Here Goes.....

If the shim (one piece) is double the thickness, would they have to be twice as hard?
Could that compensate?
So....Duro of 50 for a normal shim, but twice the thickness use Duro 100.


Before you all shoot me.....

I don't think it is a linear difference that see-saws values.
If that was true...a triple thick shim (one piece) would have to be Duro 150?


To the OP....when you say the pockets are cavernous.....
What is the measurement of the opening?
IMHO...5 Pockets are the best for real world playing.
corners are 5 1/8th and sides are 5 3/4
  
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