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how would you go about opening a singles league?
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Positively Ralf
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how would you go about opening a singles league? - 09-04-2019, 07:08 AM

finally getting some free time thanks to my job giving me weekends off and I want to offer a big table texas express 10 ball league at my local hall.

all they have is apa and local 8 ball leagues playing on one valley table recently installed. they have plenty of big tables that go unused by these leagues and I want to take advantage.

should it be a money league? should I sanction with a governing body to promise a trip to their nationals? give me some ideas.
  
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BRussell
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09-04-2019, 07:23 AM

I'd recommend a ladder league. You can challenge up, if lower rank wins they switch places, players agree on the wager. Keep a ranking list on google sheets set as read-only for players.
  
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336Robin
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09-04-2019, 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Positively Ralf View Post
finally getting some free time thanks to my job giving me weekends off and I want to offer a big table texas express 10 ball league at my local hall.

all they have is apa and local 8 ball leagues playing on one valley table recently installed. they have plenty of big tables that go unused by these leagues and I want to take advantage.

should it be a money league? should I sanction with a governing body to promise a trip to their nationals? give me some ideas.
I sent you a pm. Glad to help.


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09-04-2019, 07:42 AM

The ladder idea is cool but you only play when challenged which I don't like.

I suggest just weekly match ups. Best of 3 sets, race to 7 each. $50 to join league.

Weekly wager:
A players: $20
B players: $10

If you win, you win the other player's money. All scores are reported to the tournament director and there will be league standings. Use the $50 entry fee money to pay out the top 25% of the field at the end of 10 weeks.
  
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09-04-2019, 09:02 AM

I’d keep it in-house. I think the more serious players that would play 10 ball on a 9’ table would want nothing to do with a “VEGAS championship season finale”.
  
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Bob Jewett
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09-04-2019, 09:15 AM

A league format that has worked around here is:

singles league
handicapped by games on the wire
weekly tournaments -- no real league season
$10 entry each week, about $1 for admin, no table time
all the money (except for admin) is returned in the weekly tournament
single elimination each week but with buy-backs
ratings are adjusted automatically to make the handicaps 100% -- every match is 50-50 after the ratings settle down

If you don't want to do the admin, Gene Miller of the NPL will do it. See http://www.sfpool.net/cgi-bin/pool.pl?pChoice=intro

I think Fargo's LMS (league management system) may also provide support for a handicapped singles league and the rating admin would be automatic and the players would get real Fargo ratings. Fargo provides a mechanism for handicaps other than 100%. The NPL handicaps are 100%.


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy

Last edited by Bob Jewett; 09-04-2019 at 09:20 AM.
  
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09-04-2019, 09:53 AM

I think I’d also collect the whole league fee up front. What happens is players drop out for whatever reasons, and then say they shouldn’t pay the weeks they never showed. So the prize money goes way down.

Maybe avoid leagues altogether and have a weekly tournament instead. This way there is no obligations. You do know that pool players don’t like obligations?
  
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09-04-2019, 10:04 AM

This sounds like an incredible idea. I love the idea of a singles league. It would be cool if you used and reported to Fargo and came up with some kind of handicap system. Say a 650 vs a 600 would be a 3 set 7-5 race or something like that.


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09-04-2019, 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Positively Ralf View Post
finally getting some free time thanks to my job giving me weekends off and I want to offer a big table texas express 10 ball league at my local hall.

all they have is apa and local 8 ball leagues playing on one valley table recently installed. they have plenty of big tables that go unused by these leagues and I want to take advantage.

should it be a money league? should I sanction with a governing body to promise a trip to their nationals? give me some ideas.
Here is an interesting option that you can do with LMS

Suppose you have 16 players of varying skill. Make a 15-week round-robin schedule. If the net ante is $10, then there is $150/player to pay out at the end. Plan to pay everybody--sliding from $100 to $200 or from $50 to $250--something like that.

Each match has 3 points to distribute between the players

Play a straight-up race to 7. The first point goes to the winner.

The other two points, for the same match, are distributed according to the FargoRate HOT expectation. For instance if a 600 plays a 460, the HOT race is 7 to 3. If the 460 gets past 3, he gets both points. If the 600 holds the 460 below 3, he gets both points. Exact 7-3 score they split them.


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Yeah this may work but....
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336Robin
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Yeah this may work but.... - 09-05-2019, 07:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
A league format that has worked around here is:

singles league
handicapped by games on the wire
weekly tournaments -- no real league season
$10 entry each week, about $1 for admin, no table time
all the money (except for admin) is returned in the weekly tournament
single elimination each week but with buy-backs
ratings are adjusted automatically to make the handicaps 100% -- every match is 50-50 after the ratings settle down

If you don't want to do the admin, Gene Miller of the NPL will do it. See http://www.sfpool.net/cgi-bin/pool.pl?pChoice=intro

I think Fargo's LMS (league management system) may also provide support for a handicapped singles league and the rating admin would be automatic and the players would get real Fargo ratings. Fargo provides a mechanism for handicaps other than 100%. The NPL handicaps are 100%.
This may work in the bar scene but would any of you play a league where the room owner took 4 dollars out for his tables?



"Let your "Stick" do the talking!"

336Robin
"Improve your shot making forever for $5.99!"


The Target Ball Concept-Aiming,
The Flight of the Cue Ball-Aiming Adjusted for Side Spin,
Robbing the Bank Shot!-Pass Over Banking
Change your game for a couple of Bucks! and
Comes with a lesson!

website:http://aimisthegameinpool.com
  
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ctyhntr
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09-05-2019, 07:21 AM

Green fees for table time is a common practice in leagues and tournaments. I've seen green fees range from $5, $18 a person to $35 for the entire team. The pool halls around my area are charging minimum $10 and up per hour, so if you're balking at a $4 green fee, then in that context you may not be a sustainable customer for the room.

@OP any experience in running a league, dealing with players who complain about handicaps?
Handicaps can be a touchy subject. Are you planning to re-invent the wheel, and come up with your own, or based on established/existing handicap scales?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 336Robin View Post
This may work in the bar scene but would any of you play a league where the room owner took 4 dollars out for his tables?



My ego is writing checks that my stroke can't cash.

Last edited by ctyhntr; 09-05-2019 at 07:24 AM.
  
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Bob Jewett
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09-05-2019, 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 336Robin View Post
This may work in the bar scene but would any of you play a league where the room owner took 4 dollars out for his tables?

In this area the room owners typically did not take greens fees out. The weekly tournaments were seen as a promotion. There were no weeklies in bars. But, if you did have greens fees here is an example weekly:

Entry -- $15 including $4 for greens fees and $1 for admin
Buy-back -- $10, no greens fees or admin charge

15 players enter -- $150 into the prize fund, $60 for the tables and $15 for admin
5 players buy back for $50 more into the prize fund

$90 for first, $50 for second, $30 for 3rd/4th

19 matches, about 30 minutes per match, so maybe 10 hours of table use. The owner gets $6/hour for the tables.

I don't see why that couldn't work.


Bob Jewett
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Bob Jewett
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09-05-2019, 08:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyhntr View Post
... The pool halls around my area are charging minimum $10 and up per hour, so if you're balking at a $4 green fee, then in that context you may not be a sustainable customer for the room.
...
If the room does not see the league primarily as a promotion and give it full support, including helping to recruit new players, the league won't do well. If the room sees the league as a bother or at best a marginal profit and Ralf as a parasite, the league will soon die.


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336Robin
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09-05-2019, 09:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyhntr View Post
Green fees for table time is a common practice in leagues and tournaments. I've seen green fees range from $5, $18 a person to $35 for the entire team. The pool halls around my area are charging minimum $10 and up per hour, so if you're balking at a $4 green fee, then in that context you may not be a sustainable customer for the room.

Absolutely to that above.

@OP any experience in running a league, dealing with players who complain about handicaps?

Handicaps can be a touchy subject. Are you planning to re-invent the wheel, and come up with your own, or based on established/existing handicap scales?
I agree with your assessment. The point I wanted to insert here is that the
room should get compensated for the services they offer. Too many times I see instances
where people want them to do things for free and the business world doesn't work
like that but for so long. Today's environment and the dwi laws cause people to think
before they order that next drink in the bar atmosphere.


"Let your "Stick" do the talking!"

336Robin
"Improve your shot making forever for $5.99!"


The Target Ball Concept-Aiming,
The Flight of the Cue Ball-Aiming Adjusted for Side Spin,
Robbing the Bank Shot!-Pass Over Banking
Change your game for a couple of Bucks! and
Comes with a lesson!

website:http://aimisthegameinpool.com
  
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336Robin
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09-05-2019, 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
In this area the room owners typically did not take greens fees out. The weekly tournaments were seen as a promotion. There were no weeklies in bars. But, if you did have greens fees here is an example weekly:

Entry -- $15 including $4 for greens fees and $1 for admin
Buy-back -- $10, no greens fees or admin charge

15 players enter -- $150 into the prize fund, $60 for the tables and $15 for admin
5 players buy back for $50 more into the prize fund

$90 for first, $50 for second, $30 for 3rd/4th

19 matches, about 30 minutes per match, so maybe 10 hours of table use. The owner gets $6/hour for the tables.

I don't see why that couldn't work.
That's a much fuller picture and yes that should work. Thank you for your reply.


"Let your "Stick" do the talking!"

336Robin
"Improve your shot making forever for $5.99!"


The Target Ball Concept-Aiming,
The Flight of the Cue Ball-Aiming Adjusted for Side Spin,
Robbing the Bank Shot!-Pass Over Banking
Change your game for a couple of Bucks! and
Comes with a lesson!

website:http://aimisthegameinpool.com
  
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