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S.Vaskovskyi
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09-11-2019, 09:27 AM

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Originally Posted by Pete View Post
For all the helpful responses thank you so much.

Which diameter is supposed to have less deflection the 12.9 or the 12.4?
Revo 12.9 I've tried had really low deflection. Unfortunately I had not possibility yet to try 12.4 version but I've heard it has slightly more deflection. Really good thing about Revo it is already a lot of time on the market and it's much easier to find possibilities when it comes to the testing on your own, there are much more reviews and so on. When it comes to the Rogue the expectations seems to be high and certainly there are reasons for that but only time will tell how good it really is. A big plus for me it is available both in 29 and 30" at the same price.


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09-11-2019, 11:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Pete View Post
Hi Lou,,

I want to say you're welcome. I'm glad that my earnest question was so totally amusing for you. It seems to have made your day giving you the opportunity to show me )and everyone here) how truly enlightened you are.

It must be so difficult for you reading questions on here and other forms from the low level intellects such as myself. I am so truly grateful that you decided to respond with your truly Sage Wisdom.

I as I'm sure others sit and wait to read more of you gracious nuggets of knowledge you share.

Thanks Again,

Pete
Yep, we should all get together and chant:

"Lou is the man, Lou is the man!!!"

"He's an awesome player, he's an awesome player!!!"

Oh wait, lol....I forgot, he's just and I mean exactly like most on here.

We all wish we could be a champ but, some have problems accepting the reality that were not.

You know what they say about ignorance and bliss...

Jeff


I knew a fellow that thought he was a good boxer because he was in a position to befriend a lot of "professional boxers". It cost him azzwhippens till he realized he wasn't what he thought/wished he was.

Do you know anyone like the "wannabe" boxer in the pool world?
  
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jrctherake
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09-11-2019, 11:22 PM

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Originally Posted by S.Vaskovskyi View Post
Revo 12.9 I've tried had really low deflection. Unfortunately I had not possibility yet to try 12.4 version but I've heard it has slightly more deflection. Really good thing about Revo it is already a lot of time on the market and it's much easier to find possibilities when it comes to the testing on your own, there are much more reviews and so on. When it comes to the Rogue the expectations seems to be high and certainly there are reasons for that but only time will tell how good it really is. A big plus for me it is available both in 29 and 30" at the same price.
Your correct sir. The 12.4 revo is really low deflection but, the 12.9 is even lower.

The 12.9 also has a more comfortable taper for those that "use a closed bridge" + "have somewhat longer bridges". With a little shorter than average bridge, there both about the same when considering stroking comfort.

Your also correct about Pechauer's carbon fiber shafts being expected to be higher quality than pretty much all other production carbon fiber shafts.

I would've already purchased a pechauer cf but, I'm waiting till they offer custom weights.


I knew a fellow that thought he was a good boxer because he was in a position to befriend a lot of "professional boxers". It cost him azzwhippens till he realized he wasn't what he thought/wished he was.

Do you know anyone like the "wannabe" boxer in the pool world?
  
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jrctherake
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09-11-2019, 11:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Pete View Post
For all the helpful responses thank you so much.

Which diameter is supposed to have less deflection the 12.9 or the 12.4?
12.9 is a little lower.


I knew a fellow that thought he was a good boxer because he was in a position to befriend a lot of "professional boxers". It cost him azzwhippens till he realized he wasn't what he thought/wished he was.

Do you know anyone like the "wannabe" boxer in the pool world?
  
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jrctherake
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09-11-2019, 11:34 PM

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Originally Posted by newcuer View Post
Is it just my imagination or did it seems like when the Revo's first came out they were generally lighter and then at some point, go heavier???
I'm not sure but, I really wish mine was 4+ oz.

I use a mid cue extension so, it's not a super big deal but, I will jump all over the first pechauer or revo that offers custom weight up to ~4.5 to 5 oz and 31" long.

Heck, I would probably buy 3 or 4 of them.

Jeff


I knew a fellow that thought he was a good boxer because he was in a position to befriend a lot of "professional boxers". It cost him azzwhippens till he realized he wasn't what he thought/wished he was.

Do you know anyone like the "wannabe" boxer in the pool world?
  
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Pete
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09-12-2019, 07:08 AM

When I talked with Predator they said since I already use a 12.5 MM shaft the 12.4 would be a better fit. They also said that the 12.9 and 12.4 deflection is almost the same. I am predominantly a Closed Bridge Player.

For deflection I just didn't want more than my LD I'm used to already has. My thought process is it's easier to adjust to lower deflection (start by using no-ish English then start adding it since I already aim center ball hit without mental adjustment).

I was going to ask for 30" but a trusted player said he never found a good playing 30" shaft. Also going to ask for the weight to be the same as my playing shafts now 103.5 grams (3.6 ounces).



I'm about to put the order in tonight. Then the 90ish day wait.
  
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BRussell
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09-12-2019, 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrctherake View Post
12.9 is a little lower.
I'd like to see a test of that rather than just an assertion. One thing we know about deflection is that lighter weight produces lower deflection, and if the shaft is narrower it should be lighter weight. There's a reason the low deflection shafts started coming out with narrower diameters. I can't see any reason why the larger diameter would be lower deflection.
  
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09-12-2019, 07:50 AM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
I'd like to see a test of that rather than just an assertion. One thing we know about deflection is that lighter weight produces lower deflection, and if the shaft is narrower it should be lighter weight. There's a reason the low deflection shafts started coming out with narrower diameters. I can't see any reason why the larger diameter would be lower deflection.


I felt the same way til I tried both out, performing the same shots with same amounts of English and at the same speed. 12.9 is lower. Only thing I figure is that 12.4 is slightly thicker wall thickness compared to 12.9.


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S.Vaskovskyi
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09-12-2019, 08:55 AM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
I'd like to see a test of that rather than just an assertion. One thing we know about deflection is that lighter weight produces lower deflection, and if the shaft is narrower it should be lighter weight. There's a reason the low deflection shafts started coming out with narrower diameters. I can't see any reason why the larger diameter would be lower deflection.
Mezz Ignite being 12.2 mm should outperform Revo 12.9 then but I can say it did not. At least it was my experience. No offence on Mezz Ignite...it is really a high quility shaft with fairly low deflection. For me it seemed somewhere in between Revo and Cynergy. It also seemed to me that with Ignite the deflection depends more on the speed and what kind of spin is used (above center, center, below center) if compare it to the Revo. It may be Mezz knowing that the task to outperform Revo when it comes to deflection is not reachable for the time being focused instead on what those complaining on Revo having weird sound and feel so on...If they succeed...well the demand for the Ignite talks for itself.


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09-12-2019, 09:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Vaskovskyi View Post
Mezz Ignite being 12.2 mm should outperform Revo 12.9 then but I can say it did not. At least it was my experience. No offence on Mezz Ignite...it is really a high quility shaft with fairly low deflection. For me it seemed somewhere in between Revo and Cynergy. It also seemed to me that with Ignite the deflection depends more on the speed and what kind of spin is used (above center, center, below center) if compare it to the Revo. It may be Mezz knowing that the task to outperform Revo when it comes to deflection is not reachable for the time being focused instead on what those complaining on Revo having weird sound and feel so on...If they succeed...well the demand for the Ignite talks for itself.
I can definitely believe it would vary across different cue makers, but I can't understand why the 12.9 Revo would have less deflection than the 12.4. Maybe they're different in some other important way, like fram6878 says above.

Someone, I think it was Marek a while back, said that the larger diameter Becue had lower deflection than the narrower one.
  
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S.Vaskovskyi
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09-12-2019, 10:58 AM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
I can definitely believe it would vary across different cue makers, but I can't understand why the 12.9 Revo would have less deflection than the 12.4. Maybe they're different in some other important way, like fram6878 says above.

Someone, I think it was Marek a while back, said that the larger diameter Becue had lower deflection than the narrower one.
Your logic works just fine but we know the construction of the Revo only approximately. So those who constructed the Revo at Predator know the answer for sure and we can only guess and make theories.


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09-13-2019, 12:47 AM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
I'd like to see a test of that rather than just an assertion. One thing we know about deflection is that lighter weight produces lower deflection, and if the shaft is narrower it should be lighter weight. There's a reason the low deflection shafts started coming out with narrower diameters. I can't see any reason why the larger diameter would be lower deflection.
I doubt you'll see an actual scientific test anytime soon between cf shafts on a robot.

As for assertion, well, if your ever around a 12.4 and a 12.9 at the same time, it's really, really easy to test.

Put ob at center of end rail, put cb on spot. Line up for center hit and then shift over either left or right and shoot.

The above will give you your answers "if" you have a straight stroke. Then again, if your stroke isn't straight or you "think" it is but, it isn't, well....lol....then you'll only "think" you know but, wont.

These are the people that has told me they think the 12.9 is a "little" lower:

Danny Smith
Josh Roberts
Alex P.

There have been several others to say the same thing but, I'm not sure you would know them.

Now, are the three I mentioned robots? Nope, but, they are about as close to one as I have access to.

Like I said, do the test yourself and then you won't have to take an assertion.

Let us know what you find,

Jeff


I knew a fellow that thought he was a good boxer because he was in a position to befriend a lot of "professional boxers". It cost him azzwhippens till he realized he wasn't what he thought/wished he was.

Do you know anyone like the "wannabe" boxer in the pool world?
  
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09-13-2019, 01:08 AM

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Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
I can definitely believe it would vary across different cue makers, but I can't understand why the 12.9 Revo would have less deflection than the 12.4. Maybe they're different in some other important way, like fram6878 says above.

Someone, I think it was Marek a while back, said that the larger diameter Becue had lower deflection than the narrower one.
I forgot about Marek saying that about the becue shafts.

Add him to the list of people that thinks the larger diameter in "those particular brands" have less deflection.

Like you, I don't really understand why and it does seem like my 12.4 would be less but, it's just not for whatever reason.

The difference is miniscule to moderate depending on just how sensitive (strong) your abilities are.

Me? I can barely tell a difference but, it's there.

Jeff


I knew a fellow that thought he was a good boxer because he was in a position to befriend a lot of "professional boxers". It cost him azzwhippens till he realized he wasn't what he thought/wished he was.

Do you know anyone like the "wannabe" boxer in the pool world?
  
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09-13-2019, 09:04 PM

I really wish there was a standardized test to measure deflection. I know you can spend 40 minutes finding the pivot point and all that, but I mean almost like an independent testing agency.

I have never really struggled that much to get dialed in on the deflection of a cue I have used. I have always played with very light cues with shafts less than13, so that might affect my perception.

That said, I have test hit some cues that had almost uncontrollable amounts of deflection. A Schurtz I tried once had so much deflection I just couldn't get my mind around how to adjust for it.

I know the generally accepted wisdom is that mass in the last 8" determines the deflection.

But my new Tascarella is very interesting. It is VERY light for a Tascarella, and has 12.5mm shafts.

But the interesting thing is that even with 1" Ivory ferrules hanging off the end of it, it seems really low deflection. My impression trying my firends BeCue is that they are actually very close. My previous Tasc was higher deflection

Its why I wish their was a standard measurement. Is my Tasc high deflection but because of how well it fits me I don't notice or is it really unusually low in deflection for a standard traditional SS jointed cue?
  
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09-14-2019, 03:33 AM

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Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
I really wish there was a standardized test to measure deflection. I know you can spend 40 minutes finding the pivot point and all that, but I mean almost like an independent testing agency.

I have never really struggled that much to get dialed in on the deflection of a cue I have used. I have always played with very light cues with shafts less than13, so that might affect my perception.

That said, I have test hit some cues that had almost uncontrollable amounts of deflection. A Schurtz I tried once had so much deflection I just couldn't get my mind around how to adjust for it.

I know the generally accepted wisdom is that mass in the last 8" determines the deflection.

But my new Tascarella is very interesting. It is VERY light for a Tascarella, and has 12.5mm shafts.

But the interesting thing is that even with 1" Ivory ferrules hanging off the end of it, it seems really low deflection. My impression trying my firends BeCue is that they are actually very close. My previous Tasc was higher deflection

Its why I wish their was a standard measurement. Is my Tasc high deflection but because of how well it fits me I don't notice or is it really unusually low in deflection for a standard traditional SS jointed cue?
hard to tell. it could well be that every shot is essentially swerving back so it gives the impression of low deflection. every one strokes a little differently and it makes comparing notes difficult.
  
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