Straight Pool & US 8-Ball Rules Questions

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Before anyone suggests, yes I have looked them up...but I just want to check I'm interpreting a few bits correctly as the convention in the US games is slightly different to English Pool!

So firstly, for straight pool am I correct in the following:

1) A 'break foul' (i.e. loss of 2pts because 2 balls didn't hit a cushion) can only occur on the first shot of a game or after 3 fouls, i.e. a 'break foul' can not occur when a re-rack occurs once 14 balls have been potted?

2) All non-called ball's are spotted, but there isn't a penalty (unless a foul has occurred)

3) You need to call a ball on the opening break (or safety)

Then I get a bit confused...

4) Say I call the 2 in the corner, but accidentally pot the 4 as well, what happens?

5) The rules suggest that if you foul twice, then play a legal shot (i.e. nominating the 2 in the corner but missing) and foul again, that counts as 3 fouls. That seems odd to me, is that correct?

I think thats it...but just a couple of questions (I'm sure really easy ones) on US 8-Ball:

1) Am I right in saying combination shots aren't allowed, i.e. if I pot my ball and my opponents that is a foul (even if I attempted to call the shot)?

2) On the shot after the break, can I nominate stripes, play the 2 onto the 9 (pot the 9) and then carry on, or is that a foul as I can't hit the 2 once I've nominated stripes?

3) I'm pretty sure the answer is no here, but with ball in hand I can not pot my opponents ball (without fouling), even if a legal shot is not possible (a rare scenario I appreciate)

Sorry if some of those are dumb, I normally play Blackball on English tables or 9-Ball on US tables, so just wanted to make sure I got the rules right for the other games!
 

GideonF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Before anyone suggests, yes I have looked them up...but I just want to check I'm interpreting a few bits correctly as the convention in the US games is slightly different to English Pool!

but just a couple of questions (I'm sure really easy ones) on US 8-Ball:

1) Am I right in saying combination shots aren't allowed, i.e. if I pot my ball and my opponents that is a foul (even if I attempted to call the shot)?

2) On the shot after the break, can I nominate stripes, play the 2 onto the 9 (pot the 9) and then carry on, or is that a foul as I can't hit the 2 once I've nominated stripes?

3) I'm pretty sure the answer is no here, but with ball in hand I can not pot my opponents ball (without fouling), even if a legal shot is not possible (a rare scenario I appreciate)

Sorry if some of those are dumb, I normally play Blackball on English tables or 9-Ball on US tables, so just wanted to make sure I got the rules right for the other games!

There is no one universal "US-Ball" rule set. Under WPA Rules:

1. If you hit your ball first, and pocket it in the called pocket, the shot is valid and it does not matter if you pocket your opponent's ball as well, or contact it in the process. Even if you don't pocket your ball, if you hit your own ball and then pocket your opponent's ball it is not a foul - you just have not pocketed one of your own balls so you lose your turn.

This is set out in Rule 1.6 of the general rules:

"In games in which the shooter is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant. Only one ball may be called on each shot."

2. On the shot after the break, the table is always open and you can shoot the 2 into the 9, make the 9 and keep shooting stripes;

This is set out in rule 3.4:

"Before groups are determined, the table is said to be “open,” and before each shot, the shooter must call his intended ball. If the shooter legally pockets his called ball, the corresponding group becomes his, and his opponent is assigned the other group. If he fails to legally pocket his called ball, the table remains open and play passes to the other player. When the table is “open”, any object ball may be struck first except the eight ball."


3. I'm not sure I understand the question. At any time, including with ball in hand, you may hit your ball and pot the opponent's ball. It is not a foul, but is a loss of turn unless you make your own ball in a called pocket. On the other hand, it is never legal to hit the opponent's balls first - that is always a foul.

Gideon
 
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arcstats

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On the opening break, if the cue and 2 balls do not hit a rail, it is a 2 ball penalty. Your opponent can either accept the table as is, or have you re-rack. If re-racked and the same thing occurs, another 2 ball foul is accessed. This can continue until a legal break is finally attained. However 3 consecutive illegal breaks does NOT result in an additional 15 ball penalty. When 14 balls are racked throughout the game, standard foul rules apply.

Unless you call a specific ball on the initial break (and why would you), any potted balls are spotted and they count as a ball contacting a rail. Calling safe on the opening break is not required, just a legal break.

Any ball(s) potted throughout the match that was not called is re-spotted with no penalty, unless a scratch occurs.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Mostly, this has been answered, but....

1. An opening break shot also occurs after a stalemate position.
2 and 4. If you make your called ball legally, any other ball pocketed also counts for you. All balls made (or jumped off the table) on a safe, foul or missed shot are spotted.
3. On the opening break shot, it is unusual for anyone to either call a ball or a safe. The safe is assumed.
5. Any legal shot by a player cancels his run of fouls for three consecutive fouls.

8-1. It is not a foul to pot your opponent's ball. You may play shots that involve your opponent's balls and the 8 ball provided that you do not otherwise foul. A 2-8-11-4 combination to make the 4 is perfectly legal.

Generally, as far as the organization of the rules goes, all fouls are listed together. If you achieve the shot goal (pocketing a called ball) and commit none of the listed fouls, you continue at the table (or win the game on the 8).

8-2. The rules say 'When the table is “open”, any object ball may be struck first except the eight ball.' That means that you can call one kind of ball and hit the other kind first when the table is open and it is not a foul.

8-3. If you are faced with a situation where you have no way to hit your ball first even with ball in hand, you are expected to play a shot that improves your chances even though it is guaranteed to be a foul. One common way is to break out your ball(s) while tying up your opponent's balls so that he will have no easy way to run out even though he will get ball in hand. Such strategy is also used without ball in hand at times. If disaster looks imminent, you might consider knocking the 8 ball up to one of your opponent's balls creating a problem he is unlikely to solve.

Before anyone suggests, yes I have looked them up...but I just want to check I'm interpreting a few bits correctly as the convention in the US games is slightly different to English Pool!

So firstly, for straight pool am I correct in the following:

1) A 'break foul' (i.e. loss of 2pts because 2 balls didn't hit a cushion) can only occur on the first shot of a game or after 3 fouls, i.e. a 'break foul' can not occur when a re-rack occurs once 14 balls have been potted?

2) All non-called ball's are spotted, but there isn't a penalty (unless a foul has occurred)

3) You need to call a ball on the opening break (or safety)

Then I get a bit confused...

4) Say I call the 2 in the corner, but accidentally pot the 4 as well, what happens?

5) The rules suggest that if you foul twice, then play a legal shot (i.e. nominating the 2 in the corner but missing) and foul again, that counts as 3 fouls. That seems odd to me, is that correct?

I think thats it...but just a couple of questions (I'm sure really easy ones) on US 8-Ball:

1) Am I right in saying combination shots aren't allowed, i.e. if I pot my ball and my opponents that is a foul (even if I attempted to call the shot)?

2) On the shot after the break, can I nominate stripes, play the 2 onto the 9 (pot the 9) and then carry on, or is that a foul as I can't hit the 2 once I've nominated stripes?

3) I'm pretty sure the answer is no here, but with ball in hand I can not pot my opponents ball (without fouling), even if a legal shot is not possible (a rare scenario I appreciate)

Sorry if some of those are dumb, I normally play Blackball on English tables or 9-Ball on US tables, so just wanted to make sure I got the rules right for the other games!
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you, I think that clears up (almost) everything!

Just 1 thing to double check, on straight pool, If I call the 3 and the 9 goes down too, I carry on my turn and the 9 gets re-spotted?
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm talking 8 ball here:

"Proper" Amercian rules a.k.a. WPA rules knock any accepted English pool rules into the dust. There is always a transition period when you play with a new rule set but if you are embracing it then it will be largely tactical rather than because of transgressions.

Playing by good rules improves you as a player and encourages you to play pool in the right spirit - and the two things go hand in hand. I have no issue with English pool rules, other than them being snookerised and removed from pool, in terms of fairness to both players. But they will numb your game when you get good - embrace the change.....
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Totally agree, English pool rules were very negative historically, although Blackball rules do encourage a far more attacking game, which is a big step in the right direction.

If it was up to me I'd change the cue ball, make the table 8 foot (but still with tight pockets and 2 inch balls or maybe snooker size balls instead) and also get rid of 2 shots and replace with ball in hand!
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes Blackball rules, and even the other "offical" rules to an extent, go someway to keeping in line with the actual rules of the game as played by pool players who want sensible rules.2 shot needs to go and will but it wull take a while before the old stubborn

I'd play it with full size balls on a 9 ft table. and if th bar doesnt have room play it on an 8ft.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Thank you, I think that clears up (almost) everything!

Just 1 thing to double check, on straight pool, If I call the 3 and the 9 goes down too, I carry on my turn and the 9 gets re-spotted?

If you make the three-ball that was called, and the nine drops also, they both stay down..
.....and your score is two.
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes Blackball rules, and even the other "offical" rules to an extent, go someway to keeping in line with the actual rules of the game as played by pool players who want sensible rules.2 shot needs to go and will but it wull take a while before the old stubborn

I'd play it with full size balls on a 9 ft table. and if th bar doesnt have room play it on an 8ft.

I quite like the snooker cut pockets and smaller balls to differentiate between US and UK pool...but as for the rules, I'm happy enough for them to merge!
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you make the three-ball that was called, and the nine drops also, they both stay down..
.....and your score is two.

Ah I misunderstood that, so thats interesting, so fluked balls do count so long as the shot you called is made?
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Ah I misunderstood that, so thats interesting, so fluked balls do count so long as the shot you called is made?

Yes....just like the snooker situation where you make two reds on the same shot...
....you score two points.
 
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