Did I foul?

EddieBme · Oct 19, 2019

iusedtoberich said:
BIH playing the ghost, this was my first shot. I played the CB to break up the cluster, and follow down table for the next ball. I called a foul on myself, the hit felt like I double hit it.

What would you call based on the video? 8 seconds long for short attention spans

https://youtu.be/iSHrkwaNd3c

I may be totally off, but It appears to me that you hit the cue ball again, after the cue ball caromed off the six.

jrctherake · Oct 20, 2019

I thought the cue made contact with the cb a second time somewhere around the end of his follow-through.

I think everyone on this site knows the cue ball takes off much faster than the cue stick can move but, there were two object balls that "i thought" slowed the cb down or maybe even changed it's direction a hair. At that time (cb touching other two ob's), is when I was thinkthe foul happened.

Either way, it was really, really close and also hard to see "for sure" (for me).

OP saying he felt it was a major factor in my decision as well.

I've seen that type shot decision go both ways.

Jeff

jrctherake · Oct 20, 2019

EddieBme said:
I may be totally off, but It appears to me that you hit the cue ball again, after the cue ball caromed off the six.

Exactly what I thought happened.

But, two much more knowledgeable than me have ruled it a good hit....so, I would almost have to go with "good hit", based on their decision instead 9f going by what I thought I was seeing.

Jeff

pocket · Oct 20, 2019

Poolplaya9 said:
To those that have stated they think this is a foul, can you explain what you are basing that conclusion on? snip snip

Basing it on... he felt the double hit

TxOnePocket · Oct 20, 2019

pocket said:
Basing it on... he felt the double hit

First off, that's a she I believe, secondly it doesn't look like a double hit at all, she followed through with top, the ball stalled a bit after it hit the cluster then english took.

( I should have added IMO somewhere, but facts aren't

)

Poolplaya9 · Oct 20, 2019

pocket said:
Basing it on... he felt the double hit

Maybe that is the confusion, everybody is answering different questions, some of which that weren't even asked (and that directly conflict with what he did ask). I think his question, taken from the very first post, and then later reaffirmed even more clearly in a subsequent post, is:

iusedtoberich said:
What would you call based on the video?

https://youtu.be/iSHrkwaNd3c

iusedtoberich said:
I posted it on here to hear your thoughts if you could see a foul based on the video/sound alone, pretending I never said it sounded funny live when I played it.

In your opinion, do you think it was a foul based on the video alone? Curious if that changes things for you, plus it is the question he is asking.

SBC · Oct 20, 2019

Foul.
With that long a follow through you were bound to.

bbb · Oct 20, 2019

In slow motion it looks like a double hit

iusedtoberich · Oct 20, 2019

TxOnePocket said:
First off, that's a she I believe, secondly it doesn't look like a double hit at all, she followed through with top, the ball stalled a bit after it hit the cluster then english took.

( I should have added IMO somewhere, but facts aren't )

I think I’d make a pretty gal but a guy I am:grin-square: :grin-square: :grin-square: :grin-square:

mbvl · Oct 20, 2019

Scott Lee said:
No foul...and that's from two Master Instructors and a Senior National Referee.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

You are wrong. Clearly a double hit.

Signed,
A Nobody

dr_dave · Oct 20, 2019

pt109 said:
Where’s Dr Dave when you need him?

Based on the video, there is no evidence of a foul. The shot looks fine, and I don’t think any experienced and knowledgeable ref would call a foul (unless they saw something in person that we cannot see in the video).

Regards,
Dave

JC · Oct 20, 2019

jay helfert said:
I think you did foul, especially if you felt it.

Exactly

We often feel the double hit on shots our opponent would never consider calling a foul on.

What we do next about it is what we have to sleep with.

cookie man · Oct 20, 2019

iusedtoberich said:
I'm pretty sure I fouled while at the table. I looked at the video afterwards and could not see the foul. I even played it frame by frame. I posted it on here to hear your thoughts if you could see a foul based on the video/sound alone, pretending I never said it sounded funny live when I played it.

I think the cue ball would have had more speed on it if you fouled. Looks like you stroked it pretty good, no foul.

cookie man · Oct 20, 2019

EddieBme said:
I may be totally off, but It appears to me that you hit the cue ball again, after the cue ball caromed off the six.

jrctherake said:
I thought the cue made contact with the cb a second time somewhere around the end of his follow-through.

I think everyone on this site knows the cue ball takes off much faster than the cue stick can move but, there were two object balls that "i thought" slowed the cb down or maybe even changed it's direction a hair. At that time (cb touching other two ob's), is when I was thinkthe foul happened.

Either way, it was really, really close and also hard to see "for sure" (for me).

OP saying he felt it was a major factor in my decision as well.

I've seen that type shot decision go both ways.

Jeff

Wouldn't the cue ball have went a lot straighter down the table if that were the case?

Bob Jewett · Oct 20, 2019

It is not possible to tell from the video whether there was a foul or not. The cue tip looks like it came within an inch of the cue ball at the end of the follow through and the video is not clear enough to say whether that was a half-inch, a tenth of a millimeter or actually barely touching. So much for an accurate decision from the video.

If there was a foul, it was a very small one. As PT said, the cue ball did nothing unexpected. We cannot tell from the action of the cue ball whether there was a minor second contact during the shot.

Based on just the video, a ref cannot call a foul because the action is consistent with no foul. There is no proof of a foul.

If a ref had been watching from where he should be for that shot -- even with the cue ball and to the side -- maybe he would have seen a second contact. If the video had been from that perspective and sharper and with a higher frame rate, maybe it would have recorded a second hit.

We do have the testimony of the only human witness to the shot. I'm going to believe him when he says he felt a second hit.

pt109 · Oct 20, 2019

dr_dave said:
Based on the video, there is no evidence of a foul. The shot looks fine, and I don’t think any experienced and knowledgeable ref would call a foul (unless they saw something in person that we cannot see in the video).

Regards,
Dave

Bob Jewett said:
It is not possible to tell from the video whether there was a foul or not. The cue tip looks like it came within an inch of the cue ball at the end of the follow through and the video is not clear enough to say whether that was a half-inch, a tenth of a millimeter or actually barely touching. So much for an accurate decision from the video.

If there was a foul, it was a very small one. As PT said, the cue ball did nothing unexpected. We cannot tell from the action of the cue ball whether there was a minor second contact during the shot.

Based on just the video, a ref cannot call a foul because the action is consistent with no foul. There is no proof of a foul.

If a ref had been watching from where he should be for that shot -- even with the cue ball and to the side -- maybe he would have seen a second contact. If the video had been from that perspective and sharper and with a higher frame rate, maybe it would have recorded a second hit.

We do have the testimony of the only human witness to the shot. I'm going to believe him when he says he felt a second hit.

Thank you, gentlemen....i really want to believe my own eyes.

But like some have said...the shooter is privy to info we don’t have.
I called a foul on myself playing snooker...when I was young and more sensitive.
...the ref, after the match, said he didn’t see the cue ball move. I said it didn’t...
...but I felt the tip touch it...that’s why I’m a cue freak..I want cues that have nerves.

iusedtoberich · Oct 20, 2019

Thanks all for participating. I just thought it would be a fun topic to waste time on, nothing more

I slowed down the original footage from the camera to 1/10th speed, and uploaded it here. I'd say the double hit occurred after the 1 ball was struck, but before the 1 struck the cluster.

Also kind of cool, if you turn the volume up, you can count the number of impacts. I'd expect 4 on a good hit (tip to cb, cb to 1, cb to first ball in cluster, first ball in cluster to second ball in cluster). I can hear 4 hits for sure in the video, but unsure if I hear 5. I suppose there could also be bouncing balls to the table hits, which could increase the expected number of sounds to several more.

https://youtu.be/5TzYl4EIdxs

Celophanewrap · Oct 20, 2019

Tough to tell for sure from that angle, but from the video, and especially if you felt it,
I’d say you made the right call

logical · Oct 20, 2019

The guys in the Mr. 600 thread have multiple forensic video analysis teams on stand by waiting for the John Schmidt video release. They could probably have a look.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

alstl · Oct 20, 2019

No offense but the person who knows best whether he fouled on a double hit is the person with the cue. You can feel a double hit.

Did I foul?

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

i'm ur huckleberry

Tellin' it like it is...

AzB Silver Member

AzB Gold Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

Instructional Author

Coos Cues

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AZB Osmium Member

WO double hemlock

AzB Silver Member

Call me Grace

Loose Rack

AzB Silver Member