How do you cross-bank this shot

BC21 · May 25, 2020

I'm sure someone has already pointed out the obvious.....

Chinese 8ball tables have super tough corner pockets, snooker style facings, etc.... The side pockets are much more forgiving when the ball is going straight across the table toward the pocket. Cutting to the corner is a low percentage shot at that angle of approach to the pocket, unless it's hit perfectly spot on. Bank to the other corner is even lower percentage than cutting the ball down the rail. Side pocket bank has the most room for error.

So he must've decided, compared to the other options, that his likelyhood of pocketing the ball was more favorable with the side pocket bank. If that was his reasoning, then he absolutely shot the right shot, and no other player can say he should've shot it differently. I mean, we all play this game based on our experience, on our own evaluation of what works best for us. And when we're faced with a tough shot that has several difficult options, we're gonna pick the one we know or think gives us the best chance of winning.

Patrick Johnson · May 25, 2020

BC21 said:
I'm sure someone has already pointed out the obvious.....

Chinese 8ball tables have super tough corner pockets, snooker style facings, etc.... The side pockets are much more forgiving when the ball is going straight across the table toward the pocket. Cutting to the corner is a low percentage shot at that angle of approach to the pocket, unless it's hit perfectly spot on. Bank to the other corner is even lower percentage than cutting the ball down the rail. Side pocket bank has the most room for error.

So he must've decided, compared to the other options, that his likelyhood of pocketing the ball was more favorable with the side pocket bank. If that was his reasoning, then he absolutely shot the right shot, and no other player can say he should've shot it differently. I mean, we all play this game based on our experience, on our own evaluation of what works best for us. And when we're faced with a tough shot that has several difficult options, we're gonna pick the one we know or think gives us the best chance of winning.

I called for the cross corner bank before I realized it was a Chinese 8-ball table, but still...

I wonder if the cross side bank is really the highest percentage shot here - a 60-degree cut bank with side spin for shape vs. a cross corner bank that approaches the pocket at the optimal angle and can be hit straight on with nothing but stop.

I get that the corner pocket is smaller - just saying that's not the only tradeoff.

pj
chgo

Bob Jewett · May 25, 2020

ideologist said:
I'll find the CJ video or record it myself when I'm able to get to a table again. On thin hits like in this video, it helps the object ball open up to a wider angle. I shoot this in One Pocket all the time, goes even wider too

Then the Vernon Elliott bank that was recently discussed would be a lot easier with inside?

Bob Jewett · May 25, 2020

jimmyco said:
He looked pleased with the resulting shape.

Could it be possible that he accomplished what he set out to do?

He let the cue ball fly and ran into his next ball and happened to get position with the cue ball bouncing around in the jaws of a corner pocket. If position was part of his plan, I doubt that he got the position he set out to get.

ideologist · May 25, 2020

HawaiianEye said:
How are the shaft wood deals going for you in Oregon?

You still got some shaft wood for sale?

You keep mentioning this? A crybaby got refunded anyway after refusing a refund for weeks. This person also got laughed at for bringing this up. Why would you bring it up? I'm sure they didn't ask you to, it only makes this person look bad along with you. No logical response, so you're really reaching for something. Nice try son.

ideologist · May 25, 2020

Patrick Johnson said:
At that steep a cut, inside vs outside spin can have effects opposite of what's normally expected - inside can reduce transferred right spin to the OB ("opening up" the bank angle) and outside can increase it. So I guess that could be happening in this case.

Given a choice of CB shape needed, I shoot these with no spin - easier to aim.

pj
chgo

That's fair, once you know how to shoot it multiple ways, one will end up being more comfortable.

To split more hairs, it can be made with any hit, even kicking into the bank.

From his position on the table, I also favor inside when taking this angle of bank

Tennesseejoe · May 25, 2020

terryhanna said:
Why would he even want to cross side that ?

Cross corner seems like a much better option

Maybe he is playing the game of GOLF....

Tennesseejoe · May 25, 2020

ideologist said:
I'll find the CJ video or record it myself when I'm able to get to a table again. On thin hits like in this video, it helps the object ball open up to a wider angle. I shoot this in One Pocket all the time, goes even wider too

This shot in One Pocket??? I do not understand...

Bob Jewett · May 25, 2020

Tennesseejoe said:
This shot in One Pocket??? I do not understand...

No, he's banking to a corner pocket but changing the angle with inside english going across the ball.

Personally, I don't think the C8B player was using side to help the bank.

HawaiianEye · May 25, 2020

Bob Jewett said:
No, he's banking to a corner pocket but changing the angle with inside english going across the ball.

Personally, I don't think the C8B player was using side to help the bank.

To me, it looked like he was hitting close to center cue ball.

HawaiianEye · May 25, 2020

Tennesseejoe said:
This shot in One Pocket??? I do not understand...

I don't think he meant he was shooting into the side pocket playing one-pocket.

I think he was talking about playing a similar extreme back cut cross-bank into his corner pocket when the object ball is up the side rail quite a bit and at a steep angle from the cue ball and the pocket.

The above description may not be the easiest to understand terminology, but I know what he was referring to.

ideologist · May 25, 2020

Tennesseejoe said:
This shot in One Pocket??? I do not understand...

I meant the extreme back angle bank, it comes up in One Pocket and you have a double attacking shot by hitting this with inside. It sends the ball to your hole and kills the ball up on the top rail, I'll draw a picture

HawaiianEye · May 25, 2020

ideologist said:
I meant the extreme back angle bank, it comes up in One Pocket and you have a double attacking shot by hitting this with inside. It sends the ball to your hole and kills the ball up on the top rail, I'll draw a picture

You are talking about something like this extreme TOI bank where he is cutting the object ball on the extreme right edge and using four tips of inside (left) English on the cue ball.

I shoot these types of shots all the time in pool. They aren't as hard as they look once you get the hang of it. I'm not going to say they are "easy", but they aren't much harder than any other kind of difficult bank.

The inside really comes in handy when you are trying to keep the cue ball from getting "loose".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wJ8qUSrsmI

BC21 · May 26, 2020

Patrick Johnson said:
I called for the cross corner bank before I realized it was a Chinese 8-ball table, but still...

I wonder if the cross side bank is really the highest percentage shot here - a 60-degree cut bank with side spin for shape vs. a cross corner bank that approaches the pocket at the optimal angle and can be hit straight on with nothing but stop.

I get that the corner pocket is smaller - just saying that's not the only tradeoff.

pj
chgo

The corner pocket for the bank shot is much smaller and about a foot and a half farther away than banking the ball straight across to the side pocket. Margin for error is around +/- 0.5° to hit the corner bank shot. The side pocket margin for error is nearly double that from where the ob was. That's the high percentage option. That's why he did it.

Years ago I used to play on a table that had 4.75" corner pockets and side pockets that looked like they were 6" wide. Anytime you got out of line you could almost always pocket a ball in either side pocket! Lol

Of course these Chinese 8ball tables are much tighter, and have snooker cut facings. But the side pockets are more forgiving from straight on than the corner pockets are. I'd like to have one of these tables. They weigh a ton though, probably more than a ton.

Patrick Johnson · May 26, 2020

BC21 said:
Margin for error is around +/- 0.5° to hit the corner bank shot. The side pocket margin for error is nearly double that from where the ob was.

I think that's an overestimate of the difference - the rounded pocket facings at the side pockets take much of the apparent pocket width out of play (more than the corner pocket facings do). If you measure pocket width where the facing angles are equal to pool pocket facings (~143 degrees, deep into the pockets) the difference is quite a bit less - although not nonexistent.

pj
chgo

3kushn · May 26, 2020

Bob Jewett said:
He let the cue ball fly and ran into his next ball and happened to get position with the cue ball bouncing around in the jaws of a corner pocket. If position was part of his plan, I doubt that he got the position he set out to get.

I don't play much pocket games but this is what I'm looking at. Like I said before it looks like simple 5 rail shape but he chose inside English.

He barely missed the kiss out, then moved his next ball out of center table. Obviously he's a great player but is he that good to judge the timing of the kiss and hit his next ball with good speed for his next shot?

Maybe so.

stumpie71 · May 26, 2020

Cross side, slightly above center no spin about 3\8" of the object ball. My speed the cb comes around 3 rails.

2 rails same side as ball, same as the above little more speed.

I typically cue 1\2 to 3\4 tips (slightly^^^) above center for most shots not requiring stun or draw.

Bob Jewett · May 26, 2020

BC21 said:
The corner pocket for the bank shot is much smaller and about a foot and a half farther away than banking the ball straight across to the side pocket. Margin for error is around +/- 0.5° to hit the corner bank shot. The side pocket margin for error is nearly double that from where the ob was. That's the high percentage option. That's why he did it.
..

If you're going to calculate percentages and relative pocket sizes and margin of error, you need to include the cut angle. Shoot a spot shot from the jaws of a head pocket. Now shoot the spot shot but to the other foot pocket. Even though the pockets are the same size and the distances are all the same, the two shots have a different margin of error. There is a simple way to reduce the cut angle to a longer distance for a straight shot that does not require calculation.

3kushn · May 26, 2020

Bob Jewett said:
Personally, I don't think the C8B player was using side to help the bank.

Then he used side for shape?

Patrick Johnson · May 26, 2020

stumpie71 said:
I typically cue 1\2 to 3\4 tips (slightly^^^) above center for most shots not requiring stun or draw.

Circumstances permitting, I try to hit about 4/5 of maximum follow to get instant natural roll. I don't want my cue ball sliding unnecessarily.

pj
chgo

How do you cross-bank this shot

https://www.playpoolbetter.com

Fish of the Day

AZB Osmium Member

AZB Osmium Member

I don't never exaggerate

I don't never exaggerate

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AZB Osmium Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

I don't never exaggerate

AzB Silver Member

https://www.playpoolbetter.com

Fish of the Day

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AZB Osmium Member

AzB Silver Member

Fish of the Day