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Bluewolf
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Eye dominance again - 04-20-2003, 04:31 PM

I have made this remarkeable discovery. I never really knew before pool that I was left eyed dominant.

I thought I was compensating by putting the cue under my chin. I realized I still was cocking my head to use my left eye.

Even though I was brought up to use my right hand, I am somewhat ambidextrous. And I thought it was kool that I could make shots with my left as long as they were short shots.

When I realized this, I decided I am just going to shift to my left. What the hey, I might play like a two, I mean a two that cant make long shots for awhile, but so what.

In the end, I think I will get better in pool. And, I guess it is good I shot for eight months rightie so will be able to use it in a pinch.

oh well...

Laura
  
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Blackjack's "Dominant Eye Theory" Challenge
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Blackjack's "Dominant Eye Theory" Challenge - 04-20-2003, 09:44 PM

This is my response to the myth of the dominant eye theory:


I still contend that eye dominance means absolutely nothing unless you are shooting with only one eye open. When both eyes are open, you see what both eyes see. To prove my point, I suggest the following experiment:

Look at the text in this message with both eyes open at the same time. Now here's the tricky part, with both eyes open at the same time, tell me what your dominant eye is seeing. When you are finished with that, continue looking at this text with both eyes open at the same time, and tell me what your non-dominant eye is seeing. After you have completed this exercise, elaborate on the difference of what one eye saw compared to what the other eye saw.

This exercise might sound ridiculous, and along with being ridiculous, it is a complete waste of time. So is worrying about the dominant eye theory, unless you are shooting with only one eye open. There is nothing you can change in your stance, cue position, head postion, etc, that is going to change the optic nerve's communication with the brain. The first I had ever heard of this "theory" was just a few years ago. To me it sounds like a bunch of hogwash that distracts players away from what they should be working on, which are the fundamentals of the game.

I'm not picking on Laura (Bluewolf), as we have discussed this subject at length privately and she knows where I stand on this issue. I believe that this "theory" was started when Jim Rempe discussed it in a video a few years back. Before that, it was never discussed. Dominant eye is important in marksmanship, and archery, but in pool, I fail to see its significance.


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Bluewolf
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04-21-2003, 04:40 AM

I think that pool is and can be like markmanship. It requires accuracy to a large degree. We site down the cue like a marksman sights down the gun.

I took riflery before and could not use both eyes.

While you may not be picking on me, David, I believe that individuals are different.

The ability to use both eyes together is an individual thing. Perhaps it has much to do with my balance problems, the fact that I fall for no reason. I have had all of the tests in the world and noone can explain this.

People do not have the same perfect vision, nor the same ability to scan, see out of the side of their eyes, to gage distances, or to have accurate vision in low light. This even is the case where one has been thouroughly assessed by eye docs and neurologists.

We are all individuals. Who is to say what the impact of cross dominance (ie rt handed, left eyed or vise versa) is on an individual pool player. Being ambidextrous, I am one of the lucky ones, because I shoot fairly well with my left also. I keep getting better with my left and eventually will be able to hit those long shots too.

Just an interesting thought, although it cannot be proven. If you took a sample of rt vs left shooters, a higher percentage of left shooters shoot by feel. I have, in fact, noticed this in myself. When shooting right I am more analytical, on the left, more by feel and seeing the angles.

In terms of experiments, Fancher talks about independent, dependent variables, hypotheses. To do an experiment is easy. Just have a hypothesis (something you wish to prove), get the data which will back up your claim.

It is kind of like statistics. You can use statistics to 'prove' anything you want. If a person did not prove their experiment, all they have to do is to modify the hypothesis in such a way that it will be proven.

I have learned caution in reading about these experiments. I have found that experience is the best teacher.

Laura
  
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statistics and experiments
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statistics and experiments - 04-21-2003, 08:54 AM

In all of my statistics courses to get a degree in psychology and further stat courses through the math department, I became aware of one thing. Psychological experiments, for the most part, and all IQ tests that I am aware of are based on bogus statistics.

Without getting too technical, that is all folks.

Laura
  
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04-21-2003, 09:32 AM

Laura, shooting a rifle or a handgun is different than shooting pool. In rifle and hangunshooting, you are taught to keep your focus on the front sight and your peripheral vision takes care of the target. Try doing that in pool.
I agree with BJ. Determining your dominant eye is a waste of time.
When we get down on the table, we align our site instinctively/naturally. Unless your tilting your head, you eyes are set right because you went down and sighted the shot to your best eye view.
  
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04-21-2003, 09:50 AM

I don't understand where you are coming from with the ambidextrous statement. Even if you are ambidextrous, you do not see with your arms or your hand. You see with your eyes. When both eyes are open, the eyes work in concert with each other, no matter which hand you shoot with. The purpose of my experiment was to show you that you cannot separate left/right vision with both eyes open. On the CCB at Billiard Digest, Dr. Fancher also tried to explain this, and dispel criticism by professional player Fran Crimi. Fran contended that there was something wrong with Dr. Fancher's experiment, but gave examples, and thse examples (Both to me, and to Dr. Fancher) seemed to point out that there was something wrong with the Dominant eye "theory", not Dr. Fancher's experiment. Instead of saying something was wrong with the theory, Fran pointed a finger at the experiment, go back and read what she said carefully, and Bob's response will start to make more and more sense. I would also direct you to my article on the dominant eye theory that is located at

www.8ball.org/blackjack.htm

In that article, I make reference to what is now infamously known as the "walking analogy". A lot of people disagreed with my "analogy" in relation to eye domnance, but it is very similar to what Dr. Fancher makes reference to at the end of his article that is available on this web site. My walking analogy says that you do not consciously worry about the mechanics of walking, mainly because your body adapts to the mechanics of walking (balance, placing feet forward, traction to the floor, moving the other foot forward as well and pushing off). Now if you were to worry about all of those intricacies, the movements would be choppy, and not fluid. If I were to say one foot is stronger than the other, and that you needed to place more weight on one foot, you would start to limp, therefore hindering your natural movement. If we were to do this with the eyes, (which with both eyes open is quite impossible and my experiment brings that to the surface) you would be limping visually. Try that sometime. You have no control over what is absorbed visually and fed to the brain. Dr. Fancher pointed that out.

Now, may I also tell you, that my Dominant Eye Challenge is not new. I started using this about 3-4 years ago, and it pretty much throws water on the fire of the domnant eye theory and its significance when both eyes are working in concert and feeding information to the brain simultaneously. You are the only person in the history of this experiment that has been able to to tell me that they see a difference, and that they can separate visual images (left eye/ right eye) while both eyes are open, focusing on a fixed image. It is physically impossible. Go back and try the challenge again. There is no way to separate it, and there is nothing you can do to change that. I do not think you have to be an eye doctor or psychologist to understand that, it just is, and my experiment proves that the dominant eye theory, is just that, a theory, and not a fact. Bob Fancher calls it a myth. There is no scientific evidence that says that it matters, no matter what you call it.

Work on your fundamentals, and stop worrying about this. As I pointed out, it's a waste of time. Anyone that tells you otherwise (no matter who it is) is pulling your chain and wasting your time. Playing the game of pool well relies on perfect application of the basic fundamentals. Work on strengthening your fundamentals, and you will other areas within your game improve as well. Worrying about eye dominance will not help you shoot better, it will not help your stroke, or your stance, grip, OR your sighting. If there is some evidence out there that this helps you play better, I have not seen it, and what has been presented to me has not convinced me.


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04-21-2003, 09:50 AM

Laura, When you say you are ambidextrous I take it by that you mean that you miss shots equally well with either the left or right hand. Sorry, couldn't resist. You left yourself wide open for that one. And as far as I know left or right handedness has nothing to do with eye dominance. As far as eye dominance I agree with Blackjack that it really is an irrelevent observation/occurence in individuals. Probably just means that one eye is sending stronger signals to the brain. I sure wouldn't encourage someone to try and change their eye dominance. That makes no sense to me at all. Jake
  
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Eye dominance
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Eye dominance - 04-21-2003, 12:19 PM

I am ambidextrous in terms of legs and arms. I play pool quite well with my left. I just do not have experience with it. No, I do not know how to change eye dominance.

Laura
  
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to David - 04-21-2003, 12:26 PM

No one told me I was left eyed dominant.I know this to be true. I can tell a difference.

I have said what I have said, I will agree to disagree.

I have been called a heritic before or just plain wrong or whatever. It is not the first time. It will not be the last.

Laura
  
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04-21-2003, 01:25 PM

To this day, I still don't really know what a dominant eye really means. If it the same as handedness, then it would be my right eye, but I have better vision in my left eye. People have asked me which one is my dominant eye but I can't tell which one it is. I wear contact lenses and my right eye is significantly worse than left eye. I wonder if it's because I rely on it more?? Anyway, I personally don't think it applies to pool.

However, I played against a girl who lined up her cue under her left eye (she's right handed). I asked her if she does that because it's her dominant eye, and her response was that she doesn't know why she does it (!?!?!?). She said she didn't even know she was doing this untill people started asking.

This seems like what you and Dr. Fancher was pointing out, but his "experiment" is flawed because he already knows the outcome...but this girl had no clue what I was talking about. She claims that she just naturally did it. Makes me wonder if there really is such a thing. Could be just a really bad stance...???
  
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04-21-2003, 02:36 PM

I think there is such thing as a dominant eye, and it can help knowing what that is when learning to play pool. I also think that a person can get used to aiming using whatever "eye" (either the dominant, weak, or both) they want. Through repitition, a player will start to develop a sense of knowing when they are lined up correctly, or incorrectly, on a shot regardless of whether or not they are aiming primarily through their dominant eye.

However, I wouldn't be so quick to discount any credibility to the "dominant eye" theory since so many great players align their cue under one eye more than another. Earl Strickland, Shannon Daulton, and Scott Frost all have their cues practically rubbing their cheek as opposed to being under their chin, so it is obvious they are aiming primarily with their right eye (Scott with his left). Efren also has his cue lined up more under his right eye than the center of his chin. Buddy has the cue more under his left eye, even though he is right handed (he isn't as low on the cue as the other players I just mentioned, so it isn't as obvious). The list goes on of great players who all play with the cue aligned under one eye more than the other. With that list of "endorsers", it's hard to argue against there being something to the "dominant eye theory". If the argument against that would be, "that is because they were all taught to aim using the dominant eye", then it would lend even more credibility to the theory because those guys all play so well (Efren, Earl, and Buddy are all names that must be mentioned when someone talks about who the best 9-ball player ever was/is).

Last edited by Jimmy M.; 04-22-2003 at 08:36 AM.
  
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04-21-2003, 03:06 PM

I was brought up to be a right hander. I always thought that it was strange that my left side was slightly better, stronger, more coordinated in karate, but did not give this much thought.

This past year, I tried writing left handed, even though I had always written with the right. My right is faster but the writing of my left hand is neater.

I have always known I was left eyed dominant and did not give it much thought until pool.

So now I have realized I was supposed to be left all the way, but because I was brought up right, I guess it was kind of confusing.

My husband watched me and said my stroke stance and everything is much better when I shoot left. So I am going left. I guess having shot for 8 months with my right will be a good thing since I wont have to use a bridge.

Laura
  
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04-21-2003, 03:14 PM

If your left hand and left eye really produce superior results, why would not use a mechanical bridge and shoot lefty. Are the shots on the right-hand side of the table not important?

1-P
  
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04-21-2003, 03:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1-P
If your left hand and left eye really produce superior results, why would not use a mechanical bridge and shoot lefty. Are the shots on the right-hand side of the table not important?

1-P
Most of those are rail shots. I can hit those fine.

Laura
  
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04-21-2003, 10:47 PM

Why use a bridge when you can do it naturally.
  
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