Kevin Varney finish question

Kobachi

Scarred but Smarter
This is a J/B from KV from a long time ago. I think I won it in one of the auctions, remember those ?

Anyways, when I originally got it, the finish was fine. Over time, like 7-8 years, maybe longer, this happened. You can’t feel them, it’s smooth on the outside. The swirls or whatever they are, are underneath a coat or two. It almost looks 3D if that makes sense.

Was this a sanding error, or finish coat / technique issue? Its not worth getting refinished, as it’s very straight and serves its purpose breaking and jumping. I thought maybe whatever Kevin did to cause this could be shared so the up and comer cue builders could learn from Kevs mistake. RIP Kevin.
 

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Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a J/B from KV from a long time ago. I think I won it in one of the auctions, remember those ?

Anyways, when I originally got it, the finish was fine. Over time, like 7-8 years, maybe longer, this happened. You can’t feel them, it’s smooth on the outside. The swirls or whatever they are, are underneath a coat or two. It almost looks 3D if that makes sense.

Was this a sanding error, or finish coat / technique issue? Its not worth getting refinished, as it’s very straight and serves its purpose breaking and jumping. I thought maybe whatever Kevin did to cause this could be shared so the up and comer cue builders could learn from Kevs mistake. RIP Kevin.

My guess is Super glue. To MUCH to fast.
 

MVPCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As Mr. Webb pointed to, it is the super glue finish becoming brittle and fracturing. Happens from time to time with that finish.
 

Kobachi

Scarred but Smarter
My guess is Super glue. To MUCH to fast.

That makes sense the more I think about it. He was running those auctions at a fast and furious pace back then. I believe he got behind and people were getting worried about him not delivering. Perhaps his haste created this outcome on some of his cues.
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That makes sense the more I think about it. He was running those auctions at a fast and furious pace back then. I believe he got behind and people were getting worried about him not delivering. Perhaps his haste created this outcome on some of his cues.

I remember Mr. Varney being very ill. With the exception of Mr. Diekman and Manwon( Craig Rittel ) on here. Super glue finish wasn't talked about that much. Mr. Crisp brought it into the light and educated people about how to make it bond to the wood.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Ohhh it's painful.
Strip and refinish and sand away what's there. If auto finish is used, sand past the finish and into the wood because it may not bond to what's left of the super glue.

Kevin used CA and oil finish.
He went with CA after a while.
And sadly, it ruined his health .
I was told he had one small room to do his cue making and finishing.
He used CA and his lungs were really messed up .
Eventually he passed away from lung ailment .

Acetone removes CA finish, as you know.
 

Kobachi

Scarred but Smarter
Sad story about Kev. This is good info and thank you to the veteran builders who responded. If one person learns from this it will be worth it.
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kevin used CA and oil finish.
He went with CA after a while.
And sadly, it ruined his health .
I was told he had one small room to do his cue making and finishing.
He used CA and his lungs were really messed up .
Eventually he passed away from lung ailment .

Acetone removes CA finish, as you know.

Thank you. I didn't know about acetone. I try to treat the C/A like my ex's . AVOID WHEN EVER POSSIBLE
 

BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
This is a J/B from KV from a long time ago. I think I won it in one of the auctions, remember those ?

Anyways, when I originally got it, the finish was fine. Over time, like 7-8 years, maybe longer, this happened. You can’t feel them, it’s smooth on the outside. The swirls or whatever they are, are underneath a coat or two. It almost looks 3D if that makes sense.

Was this a sanding error, or finish coat / technique issue? Its not worth getting refinished, as it’s very straight and serves its purpose breaking and jumping. I thought maybe whatever Kevin did to cause this could be shared so the up and comer cue builders could learn from Kevs mistake. RIP Kevin.

99.99% sure you're looking at an over applied very thick CA finish. I've seen it many times on cues passing thru. Put it between centers and use the razor blade technique to remove it. Once you get to the wood, sand it with no less than a 400 grit before you reseal it with whatever.
In the earlier years of CA being used for finishes on turnings, the first products out were very hard and brittle as you can see the results of what happens over years of the wood flexing and movement occuring. Today, I believe there are options when using this type of coating as a clear coat finish for your turnings. Some of the newer products may be a bit more flexible and a little more forgiving and possibly not end up like the picture you have shown. However, I have still seen adhesion issues on some newer products using this finish. What brand name was used? I have no idea. But if the product gets banged against an object harder than the finished product (ie a pool table top rail, etc) you may see a cloudy or haziness under the affected area. The finished has lifted and is no longer adhering to what it has been applied to. Testing, testing testing is the only way to find out which product will work best in the long run.

Good luck down the path of your research.
 

QMAKER

LIVE FREE OR DIE
Silver Member
Ca

FYI. I've been using CA as an undercoat (BSI) for at least 20 years.
Thin coats and sanded between coats. I use a small fan to blow the fumes
away. Never had a problem health or technically wise. Thin,thin coats is
the secret. With all that said, extra precautions should be thought about as different people react to CA fumes in different ways.
 

Mcues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

99.99% sure you're looking at an over applied very thick CA finish. I've seen it many times on cues passing thru. Put it between centers and use the razor blade technique to remove it. Once you get to the wood, sand it with no less than a 400 grit before you reseal it with whatever.
In the earlier years of CA being used for finishes on turnings, the first products out were very hard and brittle as you can see the results of what happens over years of the wood flexing and movement occuring. Today, I believe there are options when using this type of coating as a clear coat finish for your turnings. Some of the newer products may be a bit more flexible and a little more forgiving and possibly not end up like the picture you have shown. However, I have still seen adhesion issues on some newer products using this finish. What brand name was used? I have no idea. But if the product gets banged against an object harder than the finished product (ie a pool table top rail, etc) you may see a cloudy or haziness under the affected area. The finished has lifted and is no longer adhering to what it has been applied to. Testing, testing testing is the only way to find out which product will work best in the long run.

Good luck down the path of your research.

This is one of the reasons why some adopted to use an epoxy base and then thin coats of CA over a two or three day period. It keeps you from having to overly build the CA thus making the final finish more brittle.

I'm not recommending any particular type of finish. They are all dangerous if not applied safely.

Mario
 

CuesRus1973

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kevin used CA and oil finish.
He went with CA after a while.
And sadly, it ruined his health .
I was told he had one small room to do his cue making and finishing.
He used CA and his lungs were really messed up .
Eventually he passed away from lung ailment .

Acetone removes CA finish, as you know.

Another testament to the other thread about CA finishes.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
What finish is CA
CA is basically superglue. Good finish but you better have a helluva respirator and extraction unit. If you smell it, it's too late, lungs already got an unhealthy dose. cyanoacrylate. Super glue or crazy glue is the brand names. Google it. Very scary MSDS.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
CA is basically superglue. Good finish but you better have a helluva respirator and extraction unit. If you smell it, it's too late, lungs already got an unhealthy dose. cyanoacrylate. Super glue or crazy glue is the brand names. Google it. Very scary MSDS.
He didn't and he had a small shop with little ventilation.
His lungs were messed up and sadly, it killed him.
 
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