just a lil rant
- Thread starter lorider
- Start date
k:
I would’ve liked the APA to use Fargo as well, the system works.
For those asking how safeties affect your handicap (saw that asked a time or 2) the APA assigns a skill level based on how many turns at the table you need to win on average, so if you have multiple inning games it means you’ve missed multiple times, unless you played a safe and someone marked it...then that inning is not counted.
I read most of the stuff before this post but I'm stopping here - because you hit the nail no the head!
An APA leagues is ONLY as good as its LO's and I'm lucky enough to live in an area with great LO's! They are very active in the pool community and genuinely care about the league - and it shows.
And as far as outrunning the spot - no shit. Try being a 9 and spotting a good 7 20 balls in a race to 75.
Regarding other comments:
APA isn't for everyone, but to blatantly say it's a shit league just shows how classy you are. If you don't like it, don't play and move on - no reason to spew your poison to other, uninformed, players who might enjoy the league.
I play in multiple leagues and enjoy each league for what it is, too bad some people are idiots.
I have played usapl and it used Fargo rate.. My time in usapl solidified my opinion that any handicapping system can be manipulated.
Why do I say that you may ask ? I was an spa 5/5 at the time and had a higher Fargo rate than guys who had an apa rating higher then me.
My Fargo rate was higher than all these apa players and I was a 5/5. ...6/6...6/7....7/7 ...78....7/9. And another 7/9 only spotted me 3 points a match. One 5/5 was 50 points below me and another was 55 .
So don't tell.me sandbagging only happens in apa or that the apa handicapping system will not work if scoresheets were filled out accurately .
1. If you are an APA 5 and another guy is an APA 5 and your Fargo rate is a lot higher than his, why does that imply that Fargo ratings can be manipulated? Sounds to me like you are rated too low in the APA.
2. I never said sandbagging couldn't happen anywhere. But with the ridiculous amount of stats that the APA tracks and the universally accepted notion that most APA match stats are not tracked correctly, the APA has opened themselves up to rampant sandbagging.
You make it sound like the score sheets are just a bunch of pencil marks and nobody knows what they're doing. The fact is - the ONLY portion that is subjective is defensive shots and with one simple question it becomes non-subjective - "Did you intend on making a ball" Yes or no - Yes - no defense, No - defense.
You appear to be a smart person so if you experienced anything different then it would be YOUR fault your score sheets were not properly filled out. Other team not marking defensive shots? Confirm with them at the end of EACH GAME. It's how I do it, it's how everyone in our league does it and if not - we teach them how to do it properly.
Some people just have to think they're better than others because they belong to a different group. Pretty sad.
And for the record - I play BCA as well and it too has its issues, but I still play.
Lo, you knew better than to put this out here, didn't ya? ��
It gets frustrating, watching scorekeeping sometimes, I agree with you.
The more aggravating part to me is the large group of people locally who will complain that this player or that player is underhandicapped. They aren't really suggesting sandbagging, just that the league doesn't have that player right. I occasionally discuss scorekeeping with them, but I also made a post to our division Facebook page about making a request to have a player reviewed. With a screenshot showing how to do it.
Bet no one does it.
It gets frustrating, watching scorekeeping sometimes, I agree with you.
The more aggravating part to me is the large group of people locally who will complain that this player or that player is underhandicapped. They aren't really suggesting sandbagging, just that the league doesn't have that player right. I occasionally discuss scorekeeping with them, but I also made a post to our division Facebook page about making a request to have a player reviewed. With a screenshot showing how to do it.
Bet no one does it.
1. So I must be underrated to you if two other 5's are around 60 points lower than me.in Fargo. Does that mean the 7/8 and the 7/9 I mentioned that are lower than me are overrated in apa due to being 100 Fargo points lower than a couple other players that are also a 7/8 and a 7/9 ?
It had been a while since I played usapl and thus also a while since I looked at Fargo ratings. Here are the actual current ratings and all are established.
5-5 ...410.
5/5 ...468. thus guy has went up and was around 420 the last time I looked.
Me as a 5/5 ...471
7/8......467...this guy has went up about 10 points since last time I looked.
7/9...459
7/8....576
7/9...587
You state I must be underrated being 60 points ahead of another 5...well in fairness I mentioned two 5's but the other is up next to me.
For the heck of it I looked for a 4's rating but could not get the name right I guess. So i looked up a 3. 345 rating. So if I am a sandbagger for being rated 60 points higher than another 5 ....what dies that make him being only 65 points ahead of a 3 ?
Maybe this 5 is underrated in Fargo instead of me being underrated in apa ?
Am i an apa sandbagger with a 4 point higher Fargo rating than a 7/8 or is it just possible that he is sandbagging in Fargo being 99 points lower than another 7/8
What about the 7/9 that is 2 points below me ? Yea I am a helluva sandbagger or is it he just may be sandbagging in Fargo since he is 112 points lower than another 7/9 ?
Since you are the resident expert on apa and Fargo handicaps would you care to explain these discrepancies aside from the fact you think I am an apa sandbagger .
Slow down now. He just said underrated and you yourself said you play high sometimes, I don’t think he was saying you be sandbagging just that the league possibly hasn’t clocked you well, as opposed to these others sandbagging their Fargo rates. While it could be possible somehow it doesn’t seem likely or as easy as say in APA where you can “pad” your innings, Fargo just tracks wins/losses, so you’d have to plan your wins and losses based on the Fargo rate of who your playing maybe and that just seems like too much.
You say these are all established but by how many games? It really does take a lot to get an accurate number. Even at the 200 mark it could be a dramatic swing between someone who’s in a bit of a slump and someone who is playing their good game...both being generally equal players.
You say these are all established but by how many games? It really does take a lot to get an accurate number. Even at the 200 mark it could be a dramatic swing between someone who’s in a bit of a slump and someone who is playing their good game...both being generally equal players.
I believe that you are correct, defensive shots are subjective and whether or not a single
shot was defensive is largely based on the opinion of the score keeper.
But honestly, I think asking if I intended to make a ball is the wrong thing to do, and
personally it’s a question I wouldn’t answer. I’d tell you if you thought it was defensive
then you should mark it as such and at the end it’s not very likely that we’d agree on a
total. What do you do if a player obviously shoots a safe but he tells you that was not a
safe? Do you make it down anyway, or do you kinda have to go with what he says?
By now, every APA player knows that playing defensive shots contributes to a higher
skill level. I would think that many players wouldn’t admit to a defensive shot if the
choice was left to them. I can see how it might be that by putting the question to a player
how you might be contributing to sandbagging. I think you just have to trust your score
keeper to do things right, if you don’t trust them they probably shouldn’t be keeping score
Last edited:
I would say apa has me clocked pretty well with over 1500 matches in a 10 year period. My lifetime in 8 ball is 50% and 52 % in 9 ball.
All the players mentioned have between 230 and 260 matches in usapl. So I is possible for some not to be entirely accurate but still highly suspicious of some discrepancies in ratings. . Btw.. I know all these players very well so its not that I am just comparing numbers if you know what I mean.
I got ya. I’ve noticed for whatever reason there are usually 1 or 2 in a division that fall through the cracks. At least from stories told, and I chat a lot lol. I played with a guy this past weekend who is a 3 to 4 in APA but a 6 in other places and I’d say he’s mid 500 Fargo. He hasn’t gone past 4 for years and he claims not to sandbag or even care about his rating, but with a mix of maybe strange losses/wins/safeties or whatever the system just doesn’t really get him right.
I’m not claiming anything either way just sort of brainstorming and thinking because I do find it all pretty interesting. Personally when I played in the league I wanted to have the highest rank ASAP because I like playing well and people knowing I play well, since I put so much freaking effort into it lol. When you are spotting them games and they see you’re at the top I feel it gives you the edge right off the bat, as long as you can back it up. Then you feel you have to live up to that and so you focus even more
I’m not claiming anything either way just sort of brainstorming and thinking because I do find it all pretty interesting. Personally when I played in the league I wanted to have the highest rank ASAP because I like playing well and people knowing I play well, since I put so much freaking effort into it lol. When you are spotting them games and they see you’re at the top I feel it gives you the edge right off the bat, as long as you can back it up. Then you feel you have to live up to that and so you focus even more
I have always planned the entire run myself. Never understood teaching people to play three balls ahead. In reality they have two choices. Shoot three balls without a clue what is next or add a ball and position after every shot. That disrupts flow. I prefer the entire inning, to a runout or planned safety, to feel like one continuous motion. Can't do that and be regrouping and planning after every shot.
Which reminds me, seems like Lorider is handicapping himself counting safes and two-way shots and such when he is supposed to be at the table to play pool! Also seems like his rating might be a little low himself.
Hu
But you don't just plan 3 balls then pick another 3. You are always playing 3 ahead, when you shoot one in, the next 2 and one after that are your next 3. That is a general rule that needs to be followed but not an exact one. You need to look over the rack for a pattern and trouble balls but you can't play every shot on the table in your head outside of a general idea of where you need to be.