World Pool Series - Pockets

GideonF · Jul 11, 2017

Assuming you can watch this, you will see that they have not only made the corner pockets 4", they have also gone to a softer pocket facing to deliberately reject a well struck ball. I think that is just an awful idea.
https://www.facebook.com/worldpoolseries/videos/1856981941288635/

skip100 · Jul 11, 2017

We all just watched a stream where pros had a tough but fair test with 4.25 inch pockets at California Billiards. I don't think anyone could say those tables were too easy for the pros. This is a little ridiculous.

realkingcobra · Jul 11, 2017

GideonF said:
Assuming you can watch this, you will see that they have not only made the corner pockets 4", they have also gone to a softer pocket facing to deliberately reject a well struck ball. I think that is just an awful idea.
https://www.facebook.com/worldpoolseries/videos/1856981941288635/

Has the wrong pocket miters too, when tightening pockets like that, you have to lessen the miter angles to allow the balls to deflect deeper into the throat of the pocket. Just someone else that don't know what they're doing.

mchnhed · Jul 11, 2017

Noobie Question.....
Are the angles different for each width of Pockets?
5" is _________ degrees
4-1/2" is_______degrees
4" is _________degrees

Would the side pocket Angles also lessen as they get smaller?
5-1/2" is________degrees
5" is __________degrees
4-1/2" is________degrees

Thanks for the insight.

Do you think he went to 50 Duro for the facings? Still 3/16" thick?
What a way to do a pocket.

realkingcobra said:
Has the wrong pocket miters too, when tightening pockets like that, you have to lessen the miter angles to allow the balls to deflect deeper into the throat of the pocket. Just someone else that don't know what they're doing.

JoeyInCali · Jul 11, 2017

They should have hired Ernesto Dominguez if they wanted 4" corners and 4.5" sides.

realkingcobra · Jul 12, 2017

JoeyInCali said:
They should have hired Ernesto Dominguez if they wanted 4" corners and 4.5" sides.

Not if they wanted matching 4" corner pockets all being the same size

realkingcobra · Jul 12, 2017

mchnhed said:
Noobie Question.....
Are the angles different for each width of Pockets?
5" is _________ degrees
4-1/2" is_______degrees
4" is _________degrees

Would the side pocket Angles also lessen as they get smaller?
5-1/2" is________degrees
5" is __________degrees
4-1/2" is________degrees

Thanks for the insight.

Do you think he went to 50 Duro for the facings? Still 3/16" thick?
What a way to do a pocket.

Not answering questions like that, sorry

pocketsplitter · Jul 12, 2017

Why doesn't Darren just ship in a bunch of Chinese 8 ball tables lol it's essentially what this is becoming.

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mchnhed · Jul 12, 2017

realkingcobra said:
Not answering questions like that, sorry

Sorry Glen.
I wasn't asking for the magic numbers I was just trying to illustrate my question.

Reworded question:
The angles get smaller as the pocket gets smaller?

PS Once you do retire and are no longer working I would hope that you write a book that contains all your knowledge.
I would hate to have all your expertise get lost to time.
You could tell of your adventures on the road and have a "hack" section with pictures.
You could use the money for your retirement.

mchnhed · Jul 12, 2017

Why the obsession with smaller and smaller pockets?

pocketsplitter said:
Why doesn't Darren just ship in a bunch of Chinese 8 ball tables lol it's essentially what this is becoming.

garczar · Jul 12, 2017

realkingcobra said:
Has the wrong pocket miters too, when tightening pockets like that, you have to lessen the miter angles to allow the balls to deflect deeper into the throat of the pocket. Just someone else that don't know what they're doing.

King, got a question: what mitre are you referring to? Just curious as i'm not a table mech.

pocketsplitter · Jul 12, 2017

mchnhed said:
Why the obsession with smaller and smaller pockets?

No obsession. Just the opposite. I think pockets should stay around 4.5. Anything else and the art of pool gets lost. 4 inch pockets don't take away luck as much as it takes away a major component of the game, i.e. cheating the pocket deliberately and making balls on the break to put together packages. If I, as a pool addict am bored watching Chinese 8 ball and probably WPS soon enough, how can we expect to gain interest of the general public?

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garczar · Jul 12, 2017

pocketsplitter said:
No obsession. Just the opposite. I think pockets should stay around 4.5. Anything else and the art of pool gets lost. 4 inch pockets don't take away luck as much as it takes away a major component of the game, i.e. cheating the pocket deliberately and making balls on the break to put together packages. If I, as a pool addict am bored watching Chinese 8 ball and probably WPS soon enough, how can we expect to gain interest of the general public?

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Totally agree. 4.5" is the tournament size for almost every major event. Tight enough but still allows for ball movement. In a poolroom situation all tight pockets do is kill business.

realkingcobra · Jul 12, 2017

garczar said:
King, got a question: what mitre are you referring to? Just curious as i'm not a table mech.

The miter angle is the funnel look of the pocket on both sides, the down angle is the angle in which the pocket facings sit. In the video the speaker never mentioned anything about down angles which makes it pretty clear to me that the guy is just another run of the mill fitter as he'd like to refer to himself, better off sticking to snooker tables. The down angles are nust as important as the miter angles are. Let me explain. To a degree, the greater the down angle of the pocket facing, the more it kills the speed of a ball entering the pocket mouth, for instance a 12 degree pocket down angle is going to let the object ball bounce back and forth a little more easy than say a 15 degree down angle will. A pocket with no down angles, meaning the facings are standing straight up and down are going to cause the object ball to jump straight up out of the pockets because they are not allowing the object ball to be driven down onto the slate pocket shelf killing the speed of the object ball. If a table has deeper pocket shelfs, you want say a 15 degree down angle so as to not only kill the speed of the object ball entering the pocket, but also in doing so, it causes the object ball to drift deeper into the throat of the pocket increasing the chance of pocketing the ball. On a GC, a 15 degree down angle makes the pocket play to big, so a 13 or 12 degree down angle allows the object ball to have a little more back and forth bobble effect in the jaws of the pocket instead of drifting the object ball further into the throat of the pocket where there's no pocket shelf to support the ball still sitting in the pocket.

garczar · Jul 12, 2017

realkingcobra said:
The miter angle is the funnel look of the pocket on both sides, the down angle is the angle in which the pocket facings sit. In the video the speaker never mentioned anything about down angles which makes it pretty clear to me that the guy is just another run of the mill fitter as he'd like to refer to himself, better off sticking to snooker tables. The down angles are nust as important as the miter angles are. Let me explain. To a degree, the greater the down angle of the pocket facing, the more it kills the speed of a ball entering the pocket mouth, for instance a 12 degree pocket down angle is going to let the object ball bounce back and forth a little more easy than say a 15 degree down angle will. A pocket with no down angles, meaning the facings are standing straight up and down are going to cause the object ball to jump straight up out of the pockets because they are not allowing the object ball to be driven down onto the slate pocket shelf killing the speed of the object ball. If a table has deeper pocket shelfs, you want say a 15 degree down angle so as to not only kill the speed of the object ball entering the pocket, but also in doing so, it causes the object ball to drift deeper into the throat of the pocket increasing the chance of pocketing the ball. On a GC, a 15 degree down angle makes the pocket play to big, so a 13 or 12 degree down angle allows the object ball to have a little more back and forth bobble effect in the jaws of the pocket instead of drifting the object ball further into the throat of the pocket where there's no pocket shelf to support the ball still sitting in the pocket.

Awesome. Thanx

realkingcobra · Jul 12, 2017

GideonF said:
Assuming you can watch this, you will see that they have not only made the corner pockets 4", they have also gone to a softer pocket facing to deliberately reject a well struck ball. I think that is just an awful idea.
https://www.facebook.com/worldpoolseries/videos/1856981941288635/

A snooker table mechanic don't know shit about how pockets can be made to play differently on a 9ft pool table because snooker table's don't have anything to do with pocket miter angles or facing down angles, they don't use them on a snooker table. With out addressing the miter angles and down angles of the pockets on that 9ft table, to just simply install softer facings does nothing but create a gaffe playing pool table.... then stand back and watch the balls get rejected from the pockets like he actually thought he knew what he was doing to create a tighter pocketed table. This table belongs in a circus playing 4 ball for stuffed animals!

realkingcobra · Jul 12, 2017

mchnhed said:
Why the obsession with smaller and smaller pockets?

Small doorway, huge hallway, thats what you get when you have parallel miter angles in the pockets. Once a ball passes through the opening it can't help but fall in because the throat of the pocket is huge. This is a 4" corner pocket on a GC, just like the pocket you pictured, only.... compare the back throat opening between the 2 pockets.

garczar · Jul 12, 2017

Question for RKC....

Hypoth. situation: What if you had 4.5" openings but tight throats? What would such a set-up play like?

mchnhed · Jul 12, 2017

Here's the two 4" pockets.

realkingcobra said:
Small doorway, huge hallway, thats what you get when you have parallel miter angles in the pockets. Once a ball passes through the opening it can't help but fall in because the throat of the pocket is huge. This is a 4" corner pocket on a GC, just like the pocket you pictured, only.... compare the back throat opening between the 2 pockets.

mchnhed said:
Why the obsession with smaller and smaller pockets?

realkingcobra · Jul 12, 2017

garczar said:
Hypoth. situation: What if you had 4.5" openings but tight throats? What would such a set-up play like?

That's what the miter angles control, the wider the miter angles, the more chance the object balls will bounce back and forth. A stock 5" corner pocket on a GC has 142 miter angles, but a stock GC with 5 1/4" corner pocket has 144 miter angles, yet at the very back throat of the pocket, they're both the same width, so without correcting the miter angles to tighten the pockets to say 4 1/2" like so many so called table mechanics do, they maintain the same miter angles, stack on facings to tighten the pockets, and in doing so, they tighten the throat of the pocket as well, and cause the balls to rattle back and forth even more instead of deflecting the balls deeper into the pocket as to make the pockets more playable as they're being reduced in the size of the opening.

World Pool Series - Pockets

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