clicky tip?
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angldemn
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clicky tip? - 09-21-2011, 09:32 PM

I thought I'd try my hand at installing a tip, and after about a half hour with some sandpaper and a feather razor blade(the kind you use for your face,) I thought I achieved near perfection.

I went to play with it tonight and, there is a slight clicky sound when I hit the cue ball. Is the tip compromised, and what can I do better in the future?

Here's a pic because I'm still proud of my first try.



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Jason
  
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09-21-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by angldemn View Post
I thought I'd try my hand at installing a tip, and after about a half hour with some sandpaper and a feather razor blade(the kind you use for your face,) I thought I achieved near perfection.

I went to play with it tonight and, there is a slight clicky sound when I hit the cue ball. Is the tip compromised, and what can I do better in the future?

Here's a pic because I'm still proud of my first try.



It is the magic marker that is causing your problem, happens everytime!


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09-21-2011, 09:48 PM

You either have an air pocket between tip and cue, or a loose layer in the tip. From the looks of the side you took the pic of, the tip looks ok, so a guess would be incomplete adhesion between tip and cue.
Chuck


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angldemn
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09-21-2011, 09:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverCity View Post
You either have an air pocket between tip and cue, or a loose layer in the tip. From the looks of the side you took the pic of, the tip looks ok, so a guess would be incomplete adhesion between tip and cue.
Chuck
Thanks for the reply, how serious is this? There was a small hole about a half millimeter deep in the top of the ferrule where I could see the tenon underneath.


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Jason
  
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09-21-2011, 09:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by manwon View Post
It is the magic marker that is causing your problem, happens everytime!
Not sure if you're joking, but it is actually a kamui black tip. If the finish looks funny, I used 600 grit sandpaper(finest home depot had) and then a little bit of candle wax.


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09-21-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by angldemn View Post
Not sure if you're joking, but it is actually a kamui black tip. If the finish looks funny, I used 600 grit sandpaper(finest home depot had) and then a little bit of candle wax.
What Craig means is that often when a marker is used to blacken the sides of a layered tip....the alcohol in the ink can actually work to loosen the glue between the layers...which in time will cause a clicking sound if not a total delam. Its probably air under the tip. How did you face off the ferrule? Its really tough to properly face the ferrule perfectly flat without a lathe. Leaving any little bit of residue from the previous tip/glue will make for possible faulty adhesion.


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Last edited by Varney Cues; 09-21-2011 at 10:38 PM.
  
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pescadoman
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09-21-2011, 11:46 PM

That tip is going to pop off. I had problems with some layered(Samsara too) before forum members stepped up and helped me.

FIRST, sand the glue side with 400 on a flat surface. On embossed tips, I use 220 then 400 and take to impression off(that is me, nobody told me to do this. It just works for ME). Wipe surface thoroughly with clean paper towel.

Second, take THIN cyano a put a drop or two on tip. If the tip soaks up all the glue immediately, add a bit more. Take heed not to pile an uneven coat on top the tip.

While that is drying, take some 400 and scuff your freshly faced ferrule just a bit. Some say dab a coat of thin here as well but I never have. Wipe with clean paper towel.

Third, sand glue side of tip again with 400. If you immediately start getting leather, wipe and put another drop down and wait for it to dry.

Repeat....the goal here is to seal the small holes in the leather that act like a sponge(they pull the glue away from the mating surface leaving it adhesion starved...THAT is why you have that sound and why that tip is gonna go away)and give 2 surfaces a chance to properly bond.

Put a bb or 2 worth of gel super glue on tip and center on ferrule. I suppose you could maintain pressure with your fingers long enough for a bond. If you have one of those clamps with triggers that would work, albeit tricky. You want to be able to wipe any excess glue away from ferrule.

The shaping and all looks nice, just beware of heat. That will kill not only the super glue, but the glues they use to bond the tip together. I REALLY like using: some sealer, 600, 800,1000, then some 3m imperial(white)compound

The hole in the end of the ferrule is nothing to worry about it simply allows excess glue to escape when installation is performed and prevents "something" from breaking from hydraulic pressure...


Randy

Last edited by pescadoman; 09-21-2011 at 11:49 PM.
  
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09-22-2011, 05:04 AM

Looks like you did a great job on the tip anyway.
You do realize that you have actually entered the Dark Side by replacing your
own tip and you are on the way to purchasing a lathe, etc, etc, etc.


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To learn to be a better player, is to find some meaning in the suffering.



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09-22-2011, 06:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Hog ridr View Post
Looks like you did a great job on the tip anyway.
You do realize that you have actually entered the Dark Side by replacing your
own tip and you are on the way to purchasing a lathe, etc, etc, etc.
May the force be with you!!


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09-22-2011, 07:07 AM

Varney Cues - I realized facing the ferrule would be difficult, but I think I came up with a good way to do it without tools. I held the shaft upside down with my fingers against a piece of glass covered with 220 grit, and rested the joint side against my shoulder for support. I then slowly and steadily pulled the sandpaper out from under the ferrule several times until it felt like it was cutting the whole surface smoothly and easily(like a bevel on a knife).

pescadoman - I feel the glue is probably the problem. Generally cyanocryolate works better the thinner the layer you can get between surfaces. I did not account for the leather soaking some up.

Blue Hog ridr - If I had a space I'd already be looking for one.

Quote:
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May the force be with you!!
And with you!


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09-22-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by angldemn View Post
Varney Cues - I realized facing the ferrule would be difficult, but I think I came up with a good way to do it without tools. I held the shaft upside down with my fingers against a piece of glass covered with 220 grit, and rested the joint side against my shoulder for support. I then slowly and steadily pulled the sandpaper out from under the ferrule several times until it felt like it was cutting the whole surface smoothly and easily(like a bevel on a knife).

pescadoman - I feel the glue is probably the problem. Generally cyanocryolate works better the thinner the layer you can get between surfaces. I did not account for the leather soaking some up.

Blue Hog ridr - If I had a space I'd already be looking for one.



And with you!
This technique was shared with me and I have NOT had a problem since. Before, kamuiis would come off more than i like to remember. Consider the click to be a cry for help


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09-22-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pescadoman View Post
This technique was shared with me and I have NOT had a problem since.
Since sharing the method with the forum I've seen many people take credit as well as credit me...which both are incorrect. All credit for the idea goes to a cuemaker on an entirely different planet than the rest of us assemblers...I was so lucky as to have Mr. Searing share his technique and started calling it the Searing Method. Basically just prime both surfaces with CA before the actual install. I don't think anyone using this method has had a single tip jump ship since. Newer Moori's & some of the others absorb glue so much that it was quite a problem for a time. Thank you Dennis!


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double gluing
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double gluing - 09-22-2011, 06:45 PM

Model plane guys have been using this technique for a long time with assorted different adhesives.

I know no other technique for successfully glueing end-grain balsa.

It's a natural for gluing end grain anything.

In fact, it's a useful technique for gluing all porous materials.

Robin
  
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09-22-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy View Post
Model plane guys have been using this technique for a long time with assorted different adhesives.

I know no other technique for successfully glueing end-grain balsa.

It's a natural for gluing end grain anything.

In fact, it's a useful technique for gluing all porous materials.

Robin
Been doing that since I made combat wings with mostly cyano back in the early 80's.
Learnt that Nitromethane was a solvent for super glue, so had to keep the fuel away from the frame.
Also applying the activator to the porous surface also works.The glue sets as it starts to penetrate and does not all run away or get absorbed.
Makes for a lighter model as well. Also works for tips. A dab of activator on the bottom of the tip,a glue drop in the middle of the ferrule, assemble with light pressure. All done.


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09-22-2011, 11:22 PM

I use 5 minute epoxy. One shot=one kill. I've never had any kind of tip come off of any type of ferrule. Granted, I only have a few dozen repairs, but the only tips that ever came off were glued with CA.


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