Yet, there are people out there that have to work 5 hours for either.
Please explain why kamui chalk is a "scam"
- Thread starter cleary
- Start date
Yet, there are people out there that have to work 5 hours for either.
lol, to support pool? Sounds more like they'd be supporting you :thumbup:
I have never used Kamui chalk, but I don't have to try it to know of 3 good reasons I will never buy any of it at that price.
1) I have a 100% success rate with Master's chalk when I use it properly, which means I only miscue when I forget to chalk, mishit the cueball, or have an inadequately prepared tip.
2) Anything that is worth $10 or more is subject to being stolen in a pool room. I've had all sorts, shapes, and sizes of tip tools, cue parts, cue accessories, and even entire cues stolen in pool rooms. Carrying around $80 or $100 worth of chalk in my case is guaranteed to not end well for me.
3) Assuming what they say about Kamui chalk reducing deflection is correct, and based on the information presented in #2, I am going to be using a chalk at home that requires me to aim differently than the chalk I use at the pool room. Again, something that is not going to end well for me.
This is coming from someone who thinks Kamui tips are the grade 8 stainless Loctited nuts, BTW.
Aaron
1) I have a 100% success rate with Master's chalk when I use it properly, which means I only miscue when I forget to chalk, mishit the cueball, or have an inadequately prepared tip.
2) Anything that is worth $10 or more is subject to being stolen in a pool room. I've had all sorts, shapes, and sizes of tip tools, cue parts, cue accessories, and even entire cues stolen in pool rooms. Carrying around $80 or $100 worth of chalk in my case is guaranteed to not end well for me.
3) Assuming what they say about Kamui chalk reducing deflection is correct, and based on the information presented in #2, I am going to be using a chalk at home that requires me to aim differently than the chalk I use at the pool room. Again, something that is not going to end well for me.
This is coming from someone who thinks Kamui tips are the grade 8 stainless Loctited nuts, BTW.
Aaron
I was kinda thinking the same thing. I just made the same diagram on my computer that shows Sportscraft chalk is better, lol.
Seriously, I used the chalk for a week and it did what it was supposed to as far as going way outside the striking range on the cue ball and not having to chalk up between shots. I was pocketing or not pocketing the balls the same as always, like the left cut shot with top left spin or vise versa. I stopped using it because of the goop left on the cue ball and the table streaks(I chalked lightly and it still happened on the ball). I do not think it is a scam at all but, I don't think it's worth $30. IMHO.
Off the top of my head I can think of five claims I've heard for the benefits of Kamui chalk. At least four of those four claims are scams in one way or another, and the jury is still out on the fifth. Explanations below.
Claimed benefit #1 is that due to reduced slippage, you get more spin. This is nonsense. When you are hitting a round, smooth object with a deflecting off center blow at the relatively high speeds of most pool shots, you either have no slippage, or full slippage (miscue). Once the tip starts slipping off the cue ball it isn't going to magically grab back onto the cue ball and hold. It just keeps on slipping until it slips right off the edge of the cue ball, resulting in a miscue. It either slips and miscues, or it doesn't slip and doesn't miscue, period. There is no in between. With the same stroke, same hit point on the cue ball, and same tip, you will get the exact same spin regardless of what chalk is used.
Claimed benefit #2 is that due to reduced slippage, your shots are straighter. See #1 above. There is no reduced slippage, so therefore there is no effect on the "straightness" of your shots.
Claimed benefit #3 is that you chalk far less often. This appears to be true, but offers no real benefit, and in fact actually has several down sides. For starters, ten shots is about the high end average of what most people claim to be able to do before needing to re-chalk with Kamui. So if Kamui was less that ten times the cost of another chalk, then it would be more cost effective. Unfortunately this isn't the case. Kamui does "last" ten times longer, but it costs 30 times as much as say masters. This means that on a per shot basis, Kamui still costs three times as much! So it certainly is not cost effective.
Secondly, there are very real benefits to chalking on every single shot that you will lose with Kamui chalk. Chalking every shot is a part of your pre-shot routine, and we all know the importance of doing the same things on every shot and having a routine. Chalking also gives you a defined moment to mentally collect and prepare yourself for the next shot, to get back relaxed, focused, etc. On the other hand, with Kamui on some shots you are actually chalking, and on some shots you are just checking your tip but not chalking, and on some shots your are doing nothing at all, so there is no routine whatsoever. And since with Kamui you still have to check your tip after many of your shots anyway to see if the tip needs chalk yet, you might as well just be chalking since that takes little if any more time and effort, and gives you the added benefits mentioned above.
Claimed benefit #4 is that it grips better which enables you to hit closer to the edge of cue ball before a miscue. With a good stroke and masters chalk, you can already hit near the edge of the cue ball and get absolutely massive amounts of spin. Highly unlikely that you can get any closer to the edge with something else, as there just isn't much edge left. And even if it was possible, when would you ever need to get more spin than the absolutely massive amounts you can already get with the masters if you have a good stroke?
Claimed benefit #5 is that it grips slightly better on those shots that were hit with a crappy stroke or with a glazed tip near the edge of miscue land and therefore will save you a few miscues. The jury is still out on this one. It may help with this a little bit over say masters chalk, or maybe not. And if it does save the occasional miscue is it worth all the additional cost? That might be a yes for one person, and no for another. And one always has the option to work on improving your tip maintenance or stroke...
Claimed benefit #1 is that due to reduced slippage, you get more spin. This is nonsense. When you are hitting a round, smooth object with a deflecting off center blow at the relatively high speeds of most pool shots, you either have no slippage, or full slippage (miscue). Once the tip starts slipping off the cue ball it isn't going to magically grab back onto the cue ball and hold. It just keeps on slipping until it slips right off the edge of the cue ball, resulting in a miscue. It either slips and miscues, or it doesn't slip and doesn't miscue, period. There is no in between. With the same stroke, same hit point on the cue ball, and same tip, you will get the exact same spin regardless of what chalk is used.
Claimed benefit #2 is that due to reduced slippage, your shots are straighter. See #1 above. There is no reduced slippage, so therefore there is no effect on the "straightness" of your shots.
Claimed benefit #3 is that you chalk far less often. This appears to be true, but offers no real benefit, and in fact actually has several down sides. For starters, ten shots is about the high end average of what most people claim to be able to do before needing to re-chalk with Kamui. So if Kamui was less that ten times the cost of another chalk, then it would be more cost effective. Unfortunately this isn't the case. Kamui does "last" ten times longer, but it costs 30 times as much as say masters. This means that on a per shot basis, Kamui still costs three times as much! So it certainly is not cost effective.
Secondly, there are very real benefits to chalking on every single shot that you will lose with Kamui chalk. Chalking every shot is a part of your pre-shot routine, and we all know the importance of doing the same things on every shot and having a routine. Chalking also gives you a defined moment to mentally collect and prepare yourself for the next shot, to get back relaxed, focused, etc. On the other hand, with Kamui on some shots you are actually chalking, and on some shots you are just checking your tip but not chalking, and on some shots your are doing nothing at all, so there is no routine whatsoever. And since with Kamui you still have to check your tip after many of your shots anyway to see if the tip needs chalk yet, you might as well just be chalking since that takes little if any more time and effort, and gives you the added benefits mentioned above.
Claimed benefit #4 is that it grips better which enables you to hit closer to the edge of cue ball before a miscue. With a good stroke and masters chalk, you can already hit near the edge of the cue ball and get absolutely massive amounts of spin. Highly unlikely that you can get any closer to the edge with something else, as there just isn't much edge left. And even if it was possible, when would you ever need to get more spin than the absolutely massive amounts you can already get with the masters if you have a good stroke?
Claimed benefit #5 is that it grips slightly better on those shots that were hit with a crappy stroke or with a glazed tip near the edge of miscue land and therefore will save you a few miscues. The jury is still out on this one. It may help with this a little bit over say masters chalk, or maybe not. And if it does save the occasional miscue is it worth all the additional cost? That might be a yes for one person, and no for another. And one always has the option to work on improving your tip maintenance or stroke...
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So how long have you been trying the stuff out?
I will do that tonight. I'm gonna guess I don't hit outside of the stripe.
Hmmm
Cleary-
That makes intuitive sense. Tip lateral slippage seems like it would add to cb direction of travel squirt.
I noticed that you like the .98? formulation better.
Could your overall game improvement be a function of 'trust' that you have developed using the Kamui chalk? I need something to help trust those high inside spin 3 rails out of the corner to a ball on the opposite short rail shots.
I would pay more than 30 bucks to be consistently confident in making that shot to get on the winning 9ball.
Didn't your first cube walk away?
That happened to my Kamui nail file.
The only consolation is that if people are stealing Kamui products-there must be something of value there---or people just steal.
Continued good luck with your game improvement and confidence level.
Take care.
Cleary-
That makes intuitive sense. Tip lateral slippage seems like it would add to cb direction of travel squirt.
I noticed that you like the .98? formulation better.
Could your overall game improvement be a function of 'trust' that you have developed using the Kamui chalk? I need something to help trust those high inside spin 3 rails out of the corner to a ball on the opposite short rail shots.
I would pay more than 30 bucks to be consistently confident in making that shot to get on the winning 9ball.
Didn't your first cube walk away?
That happened to my Kamui nail file.
The only consolation is that if people are stealing Kamui products-there must be something of value there---or people just steal.
Continued good luck with your game improvement and confidence level.
Take care.
I regularly hit outside the strip with masters chalk,most of my spin shots are well outside the stripe.
cleary said:
Long enough to know that while your intentions are good, some of the benefits you perceive are none the less imagined.
And the "have you done it yet" arguments on this board in response to things that are scientifically impossible really get old.
Dude A: "We were flying along in our Cessna 172 and the damn wings and tail just all of the sudden fell off, I mean not just the tips, but the whole damn things fell off right where they attach to the body of the plane. But wouldn't you know it, we just kept flying right along with no wings or tail and a few hours later landed at our destination with a picture perfect landing".
Dude B: "Bullsh!t".
Dude A: "Have you tried it yet? You can't possibly argue the subject until it has happened to you and you have actually experienced it yourself".
Dude B: "Oh yes I sure can and I'm sorry you don't know and understand enough about science to realize that".
I'm not saying that Kamui isn't good chalk, depending on your preferences. But it does not and cannot do many of the things that are claimed, and perceptions that it does (which by human nature are fairly common, natural, and nothing to be ashamed of or defensive about) are easily explained.
I think we need to have a test that will remove any bias. I suggest somebody try both products without knowing which they are using. I am sure we could come up with some shots that could demostrate the effect of using both chalks. Even better if somebody has a robot that can hit balls. Kinda like Pool Mythbusters. Anybody up for the task? Maybe we can get Dr Dave and his high speed camera to take some video.
Based on your response, you either havn't tried it because you "know" it doesn't work or you tried it for 4min with a negative mindset. Its cool.. I like it, you don't have to.
I tried it, without any bias. Just as I tried 1.21 I even tried 1.21 WITH a little bias cause I knew how good .98 was and I was disappointed it didn't work as well.
But I guess I'm just crazy. My game is getting better cause I got tricked my some marketing... LOL
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I want a blind chalk test. I want someone to chalk 3 house cues in similar
weight and condition with Masters, Blue Diamond and Kamui. Without
looking at the chalked tip, have people make the same shot with all three
cues and then try to guess which chalk was on which cue. You can use
masking tape with letters or numbers to mark the cues. Set this up at
your local pool hall for a couple of hours and see what the results are.
I can't do it, because I refuse to pay $30 for Kamui chalk. Not because I'm
too cheap, or can't afford to, but because I have common sense. If you are
honest and do this fairly with at least 20 (hopefully more) people and even
only 50% can pick out the cue with the Kamui chalk, then I will eat crow
and buy a cube. I really don't see that happening though.
cleary, you are biased because you started this thread in defense of the chalk.
weight and condition with Masters, Blue Diamond and Kamui. Without
looking at the chalked tip, have people make the same shot with all three
cues and then try to guess which chalk was on which cue. You can use
masking tape with letters or numbers to mark the cues. Set this up at
your local pool hall for a couple of hours and see what the results are.
I can't do it, because I refuse to pay $30 for Kamui chalk. Not because I'm
too cheap, or can't afford to, but because I have common sense. If you are
honest and do this fairly with at least 20 (hopefully more) people and even
only 50% can pick out the cue with the Kamui chalk, then I will eat crow
and buy a cube. I really don't see that happening though.
cleary, you are biased because you started this thread in defense of the chalk.
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How did try it without bias? I am not trying to say you got tricked or anything but if I had bought, or even knowingly used, kamui chalk then I would have a biased opinion. No matter if I am an advocate of the chalk or not wouldn't matter, you would still have a bias one way or the other.
At the end of the day we really need some sort of scientific experiment that can give us some hard data.
PM me your address and I'll send you a used cube. Apparently I don't have any common sense so I paid for brand new cubes for $30. To make matters worse, I have even less common sense that I'll send you a half used cube to try because I'm a nice guy without common sense. Then you can tell me how the crow tastes.
i can tell you pretty much every time what stick had kamui on it cause it will dirty the CB more then any other chalk and i like kamui chalk and have tried both the .98 and 1.21 and i stopped using it on my home table because of the mess but i will use it when i play at a poolhall as far me i noticed i dont have to chalk as often as master chalk and thats about the only thing i think is different
I buy things to try them. I don't always like things I buy. I would say I've disliked more things that I've tried than I've liked. I've bought tons of cues and just resold them because I didn't like the way they hit. I bought blue diamond chalk in the past and used it for a few months. I never saw much of a difference between that and Master chalk.
I would have no reason to automatically like this chalk. I too was one that thought there was no way it would improve my game. Sorry, I can now say I was wrong.