Wrinkles in my Simonis

RickLafayette · Sep 19, 2020

At the end of the day I lightly spray PTC on my cloth and lightly wipe it down with a micro fiber cloth. Sometimes, if I spray just a little bit more than "light spray" the cloth wrinkles near the sides. This scares the hell out of me and I just leave it. The next morning the cloth has tightened up enough for the wrinkles to disappear.
I have an 8' Valley Panther home edition and had the Simonis 860 installed about 5 months ago. The installer just stretched the cloth and glued the underside of the one piece slate and tacked the cloth to the adhesive. He did not glue the playing surface under the cloth.

Is this the proper method of installing Simonis on a Valley or should he have glued the playing surface? Is it possible he did not stretch the cloth? Or is this wrinkling a normal result of over wetting the cloth with the spray cleaner?

rexus31 · Sep 19, 2020

RickLafayette said:
At the end of the day I lightly spray PTC on my cloth and lightly wipe it down with a micro fiber cloth. Sometimes, if I spray just a little bit more than "light spray" the cloth wrinkles near the sides. This scares the hell out of me and I just leave it. The next morning the cloth has tightened up enough for the wrinkles to disappear.
I have an 8' Valley Panther home edition and had the Simonis 860 installed about 5 months ago. The installer just stretched the cloth and glued the underside of the one piece slate and tacked the cloth to the adhesive. He did not glue the playing surface under the cloth.

Is this the proper method of installing Simonis on a Valley or should he have glued the playing surface? Is it possible he did not stretch the cloth? Or is this wrinkling a normal result of over wetting the cloth with the spray cleaner?

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The installation method was correct. Why are you using that cleaner at all? It's probably doing more harm than good in the long term. Regular vacuuming with a quality horse hair attachment is all you should need. You can wipe it down with an extremely wrung out microfiber towel maybe 2-3 times a year but the vacuuming should keep it clean.

fastone371 · Sep 19, 2020

rexus31 said:
The installation method was correct. Why are you using that cleaner at all? It's probably doing more harm than good in the long term. Regular vacuuming with a quality horse hair attachment is all you should need. You can wipe it down with an extremely wrung out microfiber towel maybe 2-3 times a year but the vacuuming should keep it clean.

I gotta agree here. Brushing and vacuuming should be all the cleaning that is necessary.

Sheldon · Sep 19, 2020

If you're seeing wrinkles, either the cloth was not stretched tight enough, or the glue has let go. Glue doesn't belong on the top of the slate, just the sides and on a valley, the bottom edges. If your installer hasn't learned better by the time you need it recovered again, find another one.

rexus31 · Sep 20, 2020

Sheldon said:
If you're seeing wrinkles, either the cloth was not stretched tight enough, or the glue has let go. Glue doesn't belong on the top of the slate, just the sides and on a valley, the bottom edges. If your installer hasn't learned better by the time you need it recovered again, find another one.

The cloth is most likely wrinkling because it is saturated in that "cleaning" solution which is giving grip to the cloth and whatever cleaning tool he's using. I bet the cloth doesn't do it when it is dry. If it did, it would have done it during play when someone slid their bridge hand across the playing surface.

RickLafayette · Sep 20, 2020

rexus31 said:
The cloth is most likely wrinkling because it is saturated in that "cleaning" solution which is giving grip to the cloth and whatever cleaning tool he's using. I bet the cloth doesn't do it when it is dry. If it did, it would have done it during play when someone slid their bridge hand across the playing surface.

This is what I suspected. I started spraying a little lighter and using less pressure on the micro cloth wiper and it hasn't wrinkled. I'm still wondering if the installer didn't stretch the cloth enough.

garczar · Sep 20, 2020

If you play a lot you might wipe it down once a month with a woolite-n-water solution. I would not use a liquid cleaner any more often than that.

boogieman · Sep 20, 2020

RickLafayette said:
This is what I suspected. I started spraying a little lighter and using less pressure on the micro cloth wiper and it hasn't wrinkled. I'm still wondering if the installer didn't stretch the cloth enough.

I agree I think it's just that you're getting the cloth wet. I had a similar experience with my 860hr. I installed it in the dead of winter (no humidity). I did it myself with the dvds and I know I had it right. The cloth wasn't wrinkling, but it was loosening to where your hand could slide it some. I got a humidifier and it took care of the problem, it's tight as a drum. I only need to run the humidifier once a week to take 1 bucket out of the air and It's all good.

Simonis does relax a lot with humidity/moisture so it's probably just the cleaning product. I've only used a horse hair brush and that Simonis cloth cleaner to pick up chalk. The cloth is still pretty clean, I'll probably vacuum it (brush less) a couple times a year, and maybe follow that up by a lightly dampened microfiber cloth, but so far it's not dirty enough to warrant doing so.

Sheldon · Sep 20, 2020

We have been using a Roomba after every session on Simonis at the pool rooms I go to (about 5 years now), it keeps the cloth very clean, and there's nothing under the rails or under the cloth when they get recovered. I've been using one on my table at home for 10 years.

RickLafayette · Sep 21, 2020

Well, maybe I spoke too soon. The wrinkles are back without having used the liquid cleaner. Damn Louisiana humidity isn't helping either. I put my AC unit on "Dry" yesterday but it didn't help. I'm calling the installer this morning to have him come and re-stretch the cloth. Hope I don't have to wait too long. He shouldn't be busy with all the bars being closed.
Once I get this fixed it's going to be the Simonis chalk cleaner, a horsehair brush and a hand vac with brush attachment.

Edit: It's going to cost me $100 to have the guy come over and stretch my cloth. Anybody want to buy 2 qts. of Cue Silk PTC?

bradsh98 · Sep 22, 2020

RickLafayette said:
Well, maybe I spoke too soon. The wrinkles are back without having used the liquid cleaner. Damn Louisiana humidity isn't helping either. I put my AC unit on "Dry" yesterday but it didn't help. I'm calling the installer this morning to have him come and re-stretch the cloth. Hope I don't have to wait too long. He shouldn't be busy with all the bars being closed.
Once I get this fixed it's going to be the Simonis chalk cleaner, a horsehair brush and a hand vac with brush attachment.

Edit: It's going to cost me $100 to have the guy come over and stretch my cloth. Anybody want to buy 2 qts. of Cue Silk PTC?

Odd that the installer is charging you to fix his mistake. That seems like poor business practice. Should only take about a half hour to fix it.

RickLafayette · Sep 22, 2020

bradsh98 said:
Odd that the installer is charging you to fix his mistake. That seems like poor business practice. Should only take about a half hour to fix it.

I agree but I'm at their mercy. Also, it could partly be my fault for stretching the cloth. The 860 Simonis is 90% wool and I didn't realize this when I was using the PTC and possibly over spraying the table.

surffisher2a · Sep 22, 2020

RickLafayette said:
Well, maybe I spoke too soon. The wrinkles are back without having used the liquid cleaner. Damn Louisiana humidity isn't helping either. I put my AC unit on "Dry" yesterday but it didn't help. I'm calling the installer this morning to have him come and re-stretch the cloth. Hope I don't have to wait too long. He shouldn't be busy with all the bars being closed.
Once I get this fixed it's going to be the Simonis chalk cleaner, a horsehair brush and a hand vac with brush attachment. I use a crevice tool to give a quick pass under the rails.

Edit: It's going to cost me $100 to have the guy come over and stretch my cloth. Anybody want to buy 2 qts. of Cue Silk PTC?

I am not a table mechanic, but I can tell you what works great on my table with simonis 860 cloth.

Here is my routine for keeping my table clean:

About once a week I give it a quick vacuum with a non rotating brush.

About once a month (or more often if played on a lot) I get really hot water and mix in a tiny bit of woolite in a bucket. Wet a microfiber towel in the bucket and wring it out good. Work in in quadrants on the table and wipe it down good with the damp cloth. Re-wet the cloth between each section. I always go in the direction of the grain towards the end rails. Make sure you give the table a really good vacuuming right before you wipe it down.

When I am done cleaning the bed cloth I wipe down my pockets and ball return tray as well.

I never use a brush on my table, as I feel that only spreads / moves the dirt/dust that is on the table.

I would use the simonis cleaning tool after every use of the table, but I am too cheap to pay that much for something I don't think I will get a lot of benefit from. My table cloth looks almost brand new after I give it a good cleaning. If I used the simonis tool, I might be able to go longer between cleanings, but I don't think my table would be in any better condition.

jfred0826 · Sep 22, 2020

Simonis relaxes when it gets wet. I spray about a pint or more of distilled water on mine a couple times a year and then lightly scrub in one direction. The local water is loaded with minerals and calcium deposits so it would not be suitable to spray on a dark fabric. The cloth get noticeably loose when it's wet. However, the table is in the high desert of New Mexico and the humidity is typically very, very low. My table dries in about 20 minutes and has always tightened back up during drying. I don't know if I would do that in an area with very high humidity.

trentfromtoledo · Sep 23, 2020

Nice post!

Tft

surffisher2a said:
i am not a table mechanic, but i can tell you what works great on my table with simonis 860 cloth.

Here is my routine for keeping my table clean:

About once a week i give it a quick vacuum with a non rotating brush.

About once a month (or more often if played on a lot) i get really hot water and mix in a tiny bit of woolite in a bucket. Wet a microfiber towel in the bucket and wring it out good. Work in in quadrants on the table and wipe it down good with the damp cloth. Re-wet the cloth between each section. I always go in the direction of the grain towards the end rails. Make sure you give the table a really good vacuuming right before you wipe it down.

When i am done cleaning the bed cloth i wipe down my pockets and ball return tray as well.

I never use a brush on my table, as i feel that only spreads / moves the dirt/dust that is on the table.

I would use the simonis cleaning tool after every use of the table, but i am too cheap to pay that much for something i don't think i will get a lot of benefit from. My table cloth looks almost brand new after i give it a good cleaning. If i used the simonis tool, i might be able to go longer between cleanings, but i don't think my table would be in any better condition.

Wrinkles in my Simonis

RickLafayette

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rexus31

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