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Chopdoc
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09-15-2017, 04:00 AM

I have several O'Neil cases, including their dealer case, and I have to agree they are excellent.

Although I have a fetish for Fellini style cases, especially with the old "diary" lock, I enjoy box cases and carried one for years myself.

Although I think the O'Neil cases were/are the best box cases constructed, there have been some other well made box cases.

I found this Viking case made by Fine Brothers Company in Brooklyn, the same company that made the Palmer cases. I particularly prize it because of the wild lining and the condition, which is excellent. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showth...46#post5870046

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09-15-2017, 04:44 PM

I'd be interested in any info on the Crystal Leisure cases. Think mines about 20+ years old or so.


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09-18-2017, 02:24 PM

JB enlighten me on this case please?
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GTF Cases!
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GTF Cases! - 09-18-2017, 06:59 PM

Btw, Tim PADGETT is at it again! He trained under both Burt Schrager and Ernie of Ginacue and was a Pool legend in the San Fernando valley, right up there with Mexican Ron Rosas! I can hardly wait to see his new work! Though I know I wont be able to afford it! Almost bought his "Bat" cue for $5,000, wish I had!
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: 80's Red R14 New Stacked Leather Wrap with early 80's rare Runde 30" Shaft Micarta Ferrule 13mm (on Top)

  
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09-18-2017, 08:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ched View Post
I'd be interested in any info on the Crystal Leisure cases. Think mines about 20+ years old or so.
You might be able to find some old catalogs. They branded a lot of cases. Many of those Crystal cases were identical to the Cobra cases and Mizerak cases. But I am sure they marketed a broad spectrum of cases and there are probably numerous I have not seen.

I saw an old Crystal Leisure catalog on Ebay not long ago.


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09-19-2017, 09:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopdoc View Post
I have several O'Neil cases, including their dealer case, and I have to agree they are excellent.

Although I have a fetish for Fellini style cases, especially with the old "diary" lock, I enjoy box cases and carried one for years myself.

Although I think the O'Neil cases were/are the best box cases constructed, there have been some other well made box cases.

.
I ordered a new O'Neill around ten years ago - easily the highest quality box case I've ever had.

Of the 1x2 cases, my favorites that I have owned are Centennial and Fellini, but I believe Engles combines the best of each (friction cap, leather top and bottom) - I just have never owned one.
  
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09-19-2017, 09:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by runscott View Post
I ordered a new O'Neill around ten years ago - easily the highest quality box case I've ever had.

Of the 1x2 cases, my favorites that I have owned are Centennial and Fellini, but I believe Engles combines the best of each (friction cap, leather top and bottom) - I just have never owned one.
I have two Engles cases, one elephant and the other tooled. Excellent quality. The tubes are a bit thicker and the dimensions slightly roomier.

I have an Ostrich Kelli case. Very good quality, smaller tubes than the others, tighter fit on the cue.

.


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09-19-2017, 09:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphadog View Post
JB enlighten me on this case please?
The 434th J.Flowers brand case made by Jiasen in 2013.


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09-19-2017, 10:28 PM

John must of for gotten he made this video in 2009. That silly goose'
https://youtu.be/e3cfNB2uSO4



Rob.M





Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Cases View Post
Yes. The Gina cases actually predated the Fellini and it's a pretty sure bet that the Fellini was directly influenced by the Gina cases. One member here on AZ has access to many unfinished Gina case parts if I am not mistaken.

The Gina case was built internally similar to the Harvey Martin with very thin nylon separating the cue parts. Externally the case was made with the leather glued to the body and the ends folded over the top.

Harvey Martin isn't really well known but if you really want to give credit where credit is due then the credit for the hand-finished ends should go to Martin. I don't know if Harvey Martin actually made the cases or not. But I can't find any examples of this technique on other leather goods. The obvious comparison would be upholstery except that upholstery hides the ends of the material so that it can be tacked or stapled after being pulled tightly.

Laying the leather up over the ends and finishing it with a patch of leather seems to be fairly unique to cue cases.

It cannot be understated how hard this is to do and get right. Very very easy to get wrong. You will find no tutorials anywhere (at least I never found any) on how to do this technique. In upholstery you don't have to be super careful about how the leather fits together because it's tucked away and unseen. So upholsters have all sorts of tricks to make the leather behave and look great for the part you see.

I would like to add that there ARE examples of upholstered cases where the ends are tucked into the tube and then leather/vinyl covered cap is placed in the top. This is NOT the same as the hand-finished ends I am speaking of.

In a case like the Harvey Martin, Gina, Fellini and GTF the person doing the work doesn't have a lot of room for error because what you see is what you get.

Harvey Martin and Gina both skived the leather to almost paper thin which certainly made the job much easier. The drawback to this is that it decreased the durability of the leather tremendously. This is probably a reason why so few of these cases have survived. A lot of them were probably thrown away as junk when the leather wore through. For this reason surviving examples should be prized.

Fellini used thicker leather on the ends and this came with it's own set of problems. Namely keeping the leather down. You can see on a lot of Fellinis that the ends are separating from the body. This happens when the leather and glue react to climate change. Sam Engles also had this problem on many of his cases. And this is normal because without a Martin or Gina to study then those that follow only have the examples available to them.

We have invented a way to pretty much insure that the ends stay put forever for the GTF cases. So far 3 years and counting it seems to be working.

But yeah, the real credit goes to Martin for the hand-finished ends and then to Gina for the flush slip cover case.

To be fair slip cover cases have been made for centuries. But as far as I can tell the modern version using nested extrusion tubes started with Ernie at Gina.

Note: There may be examples of the flush-lid slip cover style as Viking Cases which were also from the 60s.

(I don't have any examples of the Gina - Maybe someone else could provide some?)

Martin:






Fellini:






Engles:








GTF:






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09-20-2017, 06:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibuycues View Post
Let's see, after Martin we have Gina, Viking, Adam, Fellini, Centennial, Ann Gore/Manx, It's George, Schon, Kelli, McDermott, Ron Thomas and GTF.

Did I miss any?
Thanks.

Will Prout[/QUOTE]

Will, as you probably remember when Dan and I were together as Joss Cues we made about 50 tube type cases in 1969-71. They were all wrapped with leather and were only large enough for a butt and 2 shafts. We used a variety of different leathers.

I had a Martin case for many years that I bought from Lassiter at Beanies for $100.00. Sold it to Denny Glenn.

I still have an original Gina case like the one you have with Kelly's cue. Ernie made it for me in exchange for some shafts.

Bill S.
  
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09-20-2017, 08:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Cases View Post
The 434th J.Flowers brand case made by Jiasen in 2013.
sir thanks for the reply.

I am aware of those facts as they are on the case. what I would like clarified is the Jiasen connection/story?

the video is rather confusing as to this matter.

T I A


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09-20-2017, 09:16 AM

In the JB post quoted above, who made the case in the picture from Wolfbite, is it an Engles?
I have one very similar, but it has no tag.

Rereading it, it is listed under Engles and before GTF, so I guess I need to work on reading comprehension!

Last edited by Maxx; 09-20-2017 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Need to be mindful
  
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Joss Cues Case - 09-20-2017, 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstroud View Post

Will, as you probably remember when Dan and I were together as Joss Cues we made about 50 tube type cases in 1969-71. They were all wrapped with leather and were only large enough for a butt and 2 shafts. We used a variety of different leathers.

I had a Martin case for many years that I bought from Lassiter at Beanies for $100.00. Sold it to Denny Glenn.

I still have an original Gina case like the one you have with Kelly's cue. Ernie made it for me in exchange for some shafts.

Bill S.
Hello Bill,

I believe this may be one of the Joss cases you are referring to.., this particular one was recovered by Mike Roberts (It's George) when it became too tattered.





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09-20-2017, 01:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Bufalo View Post
Hello Bill,

I believe this may be one of the Joss cases you are referring to..
Very cool.

I never knew about these.

How are they identified?

They look "tight" like a Kelli case.

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09-20-2017, 01:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphadog View Post
sir thanks for the reply.

I am aware of those facts as they are on the case. what I would like clarified is the Jiasen connection/story?

the video is rather confusing as to this matter.

T I A
Jiasen made the J.Flowers series cases in 2013. Originally I wanted Jiasen to make the J.Flowers cases. They proved unable to make them consistently so I took over the production until such time as they could do it. By 2013 they were doing them all.


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