Cue finishing advice

Cocobolo will darken up no matter what you do. Your finish method sounds fine.

Like Chris said, nothing you can do about the cocobolo. As for finish, it's very much an individual thing. It sounds like you have a solid basis to start from but almost certainly you'll develop your own methods. Finish is one of the toughest & most frustrating aspects to learn, so don't be discouraged if things go awry.

Mike81 said:

Thanks guys!! Do I need to use a sanding sealer first or can I just apply the epoxy?

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The sanding sealer helps prevents the dust from settling in the pits.

I'm a hobby cuemaker so take this with a grain of salt, i'm sure it will aggravate some of the high end guys. :smile:

What do you think BBC used? Or the early guys like Rambow & maybe even GB on some cues? (he started as a toymaker, after all)

My real job is millwork, and as i aged out, more furniture and smaller stuff. So i am a fan of super-blonde shellac, mixed fresh from flakes. If you are making cues for others, the expectation has gravitated toward auto type finishes, and they will last for decades. For myself, i prefer a french polish, which is good for maybe a decade, and then it is super easy to refresh. (or at any point in between)

If every cue you build is a masterpiece and might be sold, go with the auto & 2 part finishes. If you are fast-iterating cues for yourself and to try ideas, french polish (fresh shellac) may be useful. It's certainly non-toxic.

I use General finishes by the 5 gal at times. (was spraying it all day yesterday). I would not consider it a show finish for a cue*, but it is a good, solid, low toxicity finish that is easy to use, and relatively easy to repair. It builds a dries fast, so long as you put it on at recommended thickness. The first coat will raise the grain a lot on bare wood. I'm not sure about using it over epoxy - check with the manufacturer on that. They have (or used to) a good help-line. Also, "epoxy" does not tell a lot about what product you intend to use. Some bar finishes are quite clear and don't yellow much. Others like WEST that were formulated primarily as an adhesive will very much darken some woods. If the hardener is older (say 8 months to a year open) it will acquire a gradually redder and darker tint. WEST says if performs better with age, but for a finish or for glue lines in light wood, the red might be objectionable.

Back to bar finishes - I'm not suggesting that, though they could be good, but if you consider such, be sure it is epoxy, and not "epoxy" (generic ad-speak for non-epoxy 2 part finish) or polyester (fiberglass) material. True epoxy has a huge chemical bond affinity for wood. Polyester goes on an wets out nicely, but has virtually no chemical bond. Dent it and it may white-spot. Not that anyone soaks cues, but epoxy will not de-bond no matter how long soaked (though joints may fail) Polyester will de-bond.

*General finishes on a cue - I think my only objection is that it is a polyurethane, and lacks "ultimate" clarity. It can yellow a bit on light woods, though not as much as many. If lacquer were the ultimate for clarity, the GF would be a step down, but a lot more durable. :smile:

all that said, i'm happy to hear what the pros use as well.

smt

Shellac and French polish get really gummy after a while.
They're sneaky pete level.
I am not even sure it would stick to cocobolo.
Coco needs a lot of acetone or lacquer thinner wash before finishing.

Boiled linseed oil do not really seal wood all that well.
But, they are used by snooker cue makers .

Lacquer is yellow/brown from the getgo . They are not nearly the ultimate clarity.

Mike81 said:

Thanks again guys. I was thinking of trying the system three mirror coat epoxy and going over it with the enduro poly. I have a family member who’s been painting cars for 40 years. He offered to spray clear coat on it for me. Should I go that route instead? Thanks Joey also for the tip of wiping the coco down before applying the finish. That makes sense because of how oily it is. I wouldn’t have thought to do it! I read it’s good to wipe down with denatured alcohol before gluing it also, which I did. I don’t know how many cues I’ll make after this... possibly none but I have a lot of time into it and I want to make it the best I possibly can!

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Epoxy coat it . Fine sand and gray scotch brite . Two coats is better.
Then take it to get auto clear coat .

Was checking if there was a re-coat window on the GF Enduro var gloss sprayed on millwork parts yesterday. Since it was up anyway, here's the link.

https://generalfinishes.com/wood-fi...anding-sealer/enduro-var-water-based-urethane

Shellac and French polish get really gummy after a while.

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Not true if made from flakes and fresh. Also, wax it with carnauba.

They're sneaky pete level.

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Hey, i resemble that remark!

I am not even sure it would stick to cocobolo.

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It does. But being a furniture and toolmaker. i tend to prefer good woods be pretty "bare" Cocobola without anything on it gets a nice satin shine, but it will accumulate dirt in a raw application. So i seal it with fresh shellac diluted "quite a bit" with alcohol. I want the shellac deep in the pores, not on the surface. Then i wax with carnauba and bees wax. But i do have a about 6 or 7 year old cocobola sneaky (my regular shooter) with a built up french polish and it is fine.

Coco needs a lot of acetone or lacquer thinner wash before finishing.

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It does for some "industrial' finishes because the oils interfere. But shellac is the universal sealant.

Lacquer is yellow/brown from the getgo . They are not nearly the ultimate clarity

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All the lacquers i ever sprayed were water white/clear unless they had color (for automotive) or flattening agents added. Then again i have not used lacquer on either furniture or motorcycles since the 80's. A few years ago the guy that does Steinway's custom finishes did some furniture for me and one of the steps included a pre-cat crystal clear lacquer from Mohawk. But i am not familiar with the system. The problem with lacquers is they require a sealer (such as shellac on wood) and then they tend to be brittle. Conversely, many will also get rubbery, sticky with a lot of handling, or with long contact to soft plastics with plasticizers.

I've never tried it, and for reasons stated, GF would not be my personal first thought for a cue finish, but since you mentioned it, apparently GF thinks it is fine on raw Cocobola - see link above.

I do agree, if you can afford the system for one cue, automotive finishes applied with no shortcuts will yield the ultimate.
For wood, they do not have the flex that most wood finishes have, so generally are not ideal for larger natural wooden objects.

smt

Cocobolo is an oily rosewood. Going to need a good sealing method before you take it to be sprayed. < my experience

Mike81 said:

Ok Joey I’ll do that ... thanks. Do I sand the epoxy to a shine or leave it slightly scuffed ?

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Sand lengthwise with 800 grit then gray scotch brite.
Take all shine out.