Basic Aiming - My thoughts and approach

duckie · Feb 3, 2020

In motorcycling, there is this concept called target fixation, which is a cause for a lot of motorcycle accidents.

Target fixation is when you look at where you don’t want to go, but because you are looking at that spot, you go there anyway.

From my motorcycle racing, I’ve seen this a lot. A following rider is so focused on the rider in front, that they will follow them off track if that’s where the lead riders goes.

The following rider must always look past the lead rider to where they want to go.

I’ve gone off track and had a following rider follow me cause he was target fixated on me.

In motorcycling, you look where you want to go at all times, well most the times anyway, specially if you are hauling ass in the twisties.

I apply this concept to my pool playing. I look where to put the CB, look where it needs to be, based on extensive practice.

Like I said.......at some point a player must customize their playing for themselves.

BC21 · Feb 3, 2020

duckie said:
You just contradicted yourself.

When the quarterback releases the football........where he is throwing is not moving, so the CB does not need to be moving. Its a spot where he thinks the football needs to be based on .......wait for it.............throwing a football forever...........extensive experience throwing a football. Practice, practice.

Same with pool.........learn to see where to place the ball from lots of practice. Forget trying to aiming.

If a quarterback can learn to see where to place the football without a real target, so can pool players.

Cause in pool, there is no real target either, just where to place the ball from extensive practice. Trail and error.........until there is no more trail and error.

Just as a quarterback learns where to place the football based on what he is seeing combined with experience, the pool player does the same thing.

Learning precision takes time. It requires the player to have a set standard for what is a good shot and bad shot.

Just accepting anywhere in the pocket as a good shot will not lead to precision. If the ball does not go where you want, it’s a bad shot and the player needs to make adjustments.......even if the ball went in the pocket, just not where you want.

If a pool player can not precisely place the OB where they want it...........it because they haven’t practice doing so.

Yep.. practice practice practice. Nothing can replace good, quality experience. Pool players develop good experience just like anyone else, from golf to tennis to chess to whatever.

Many factors are invovled with developing skill/talent. You must have opportunity, desire, dedication, good practice habits, effective/quality practice sessions, and hours upon hours of experience doing this. Experience alone, however, isn't enough. You can play pool for years and never get any better than the average player. This is because your "experience" with the game is just average. If you don't dedicate yourself to learning and improving and practicing, no amount of experience will magically make you a great player. Watch any league night in any league anywhere and you'll see quite a few average to below average players, even though they've been playing for years. They remain stagnant, stuck at a certain skill level, a level defined by the quality of their pool playing experience.

Trial and error works. It's time consuming, but effective. Playing with better players, players that show you things and share knowledge and tips, from aiming to mechanics to whatever, is much more efficient and effective than learning strictly via trial and error, just as a good aiming system/method can be much more effective than simply guessing where the cb needs to be in order to pocket a ball.

Matt_24 · Feb 20, 2020

BC21 said:
Yep.. practice practice practice. Nothing can replace good, quality experience. Pool players develop good experience just like anyone else, from golf to tennis to chess to whatever.

Many factors are invovled with developing skill/talent. You must have opportunity, desire, dedication, good practice habits, effective/quality practice sessions, and hours upon hours of experience doing this. Experience alone, however, isn't enough. You can play pool for years and never get any better than the average player. This is because your "experience" with the game is just average. If you don't dedicate yourself to learning and improving and practicing, no amount of experience will magically make you a great player. Watch any league night in any league anywhere and you'll see quite a few average to below average players, even though they've been playing for years. They remain stagnant, stuck at a certain skill level, a level defined by the quality of their pool playing experience.

Trial and error works. It's time consuming, but effective. Playing with better players, players that show you things and share knowledge and tips, from aiming to mechanics to whatever, is much more efficient and effective than learning strictly via trial and error, just as a good aiming system/method can be much more effective than simply guessing where the cb needs to be in order to pocket a ball.

Brian, I don't know how well you play - but I know you sure love to type and give advice! You can spot us all the 5 out and the breaks.

Matt_24 · Feb 20, 2020

One Pocket John said:
This is also what I do ever since I saw Jimmy Reid's "No Time for Negative" VHS tape back in the mid 90's or there about.

John

Yeah, I never saw his tape -- but took lessons in his garage (years ago). He was a very positive person...and great teacher. It was neat to see his US OPEN 9 ball trophy and a few others.

That staying frozen in position until the cue ball stops rolling is the best thing I learned. Once I could do it comfortably my game elevated a lot. You just start hitting balls and playing and your aim will come back real quick. Fundamentals are the most important. When I was playing a lot (and my personal best) I would mentally say to myself, I don't care if I miss...but my fundamentals will be perfect. And another trick....in pressure situations where you're feeling nervous anxiety push your bridge down EXTRA hard...I mean, dig into the cloth. It will help!

You're welcome.

BC21 · Feb 21, 2020

Matt_24 said:
Brian, I don't know how well you play - but I know you sure love to type and give advice! You can spot us all the 5 out and the breaks.

Not the breaks. Never the breaks.

I do type a lot, but I'm not giving "advice" so much as I'm giving information to maybe help others get better faster.

When it comes to learning, to developing skills, or to practicing for improvement, there is just too much old school mentality floating around. Too many people here are stubbornly stuck in the old belief that hitting a million balls is the only way to get better, and it's simply not true.

I am not an expert on physical or mental training, but my opinions and comments are not merely based on my personal way or doing things over the last 30+ years. I am not giving opinions that are rooted in my personal bias. Instead, over the last few years, I have read more than two dozen books about how the brain develops fine skills, talents, and muscle memory. From musicians to tennis players, from golfers to pool players, etc... there is a more efficient and effective way to learn and develop skills, and it doesn't involve guesswork or trial and error or tedious boring practice sessions. Some very good instructors already incorporate the methods I'm talking about.

Anyway, sorry if my "advice" strikes you too aggressively or irritates you. If anyone here is ever coming through Charleston WV, please message me and we can play some. That's the best way to see who can really play and who just talks about playing from behind a keyboard.:smile:

duckie · Feb 21, 2020

BC21 said:
Not the breaks. Never the breaks.

I do type a lot, but I'm not giving "advice" so much as I'm giving information to maybe help others get better faster.

When it comes to learning, to developing skills, or to practicing for improvement, there is just too much old school mentality floating around. Too many people here are stubbornly stuck in the old belief that hitting a million balls is the only way to get better, and it's simply not true.

I am not an expert on physical or mental training, but my opinions and comments are not merely based on my personal way or doing things over the last 30+ years. I am not giving opinions that are rooted in my personal bias. Instead, over the last few years, I have read more than two dozen books about how the brain develops fine skills, talents, and muscle memory. From musicians to tennis players, from golfers to pool players, etc... there is a more efficient and effective way to learn and develop skills, and it doesn't involve guesswork or trial and error or tedious boring practice sessions. Some very good instructors already incorporate the methods I'm talking about.

Anyway, sorry if my "advice" strikes you too aggressively or irritates you. If anyone here is ever coming through Charleston WV, please message me and we can play some. That's the best way to see who can really play and who just talks about playing from behind a keyboard.:smile:

There’s is a difference in learning skills, fundamentals, basic and becoming a master of pool, or anything.

And once achieved, it has to be maintained in order to remain a master.

This requires practice, hitting balls.......... rehearsing if you will, hitting machine thrown balls back in tennis, the putting green and driving ranges.

You think pros don’t do those thing?

This really bugs me.........you think a band, putting on a big concerts, just shows up and plays without practicing?

By continuing to down play the importance of hitting balls is doing disservice to pool and what it takes to play it at a high level.....a pro level.

Notice how many times the word “daily” is mentioned......

https://bulletproofmusician.com/how-many-hours-a-day-should-you-practice/

BC21 · Feb 21, 2020

duckie said:
There’s is a difference in learning skills, fundamentals, basic and becoming a master of pool, or anything.

And once achieved, it has to be maintained in order to remain a master.

This requires practice, hitting balls.......... rehearsing if you will, hitting machine thrown balls back in tennis, the putting green and driving ranges.

You think pros don’t do those thing?

This really bugs me.........you think a band, putting on a big concerts, just shows up and plays without practicing?

By continuing to down play the importance of hitting balls is doing disservice to pool and what it takes to play it at a high level.....a pro level.

I agree with all of this. Practice and playing experience is crucial in the learning process as well as the maintenance process. I don't mean to downplay it. I am just pointing out that there are thousands, if not millions, of pool players out there that practice and practice and practice, that play year after year, only to never get any better than average. Why is that?

They hear experienced players say, "you just gotta play more", or "you have to practice more". When the truth is, there's way more to it than that. They need opportunity, desire, a willingness to listen, watch, and learn from other players. They need to practice more efficiently, which is not time-oriented practice sessions, but goal-oriented sessions. They need to watch more professional pool. They need to compete against better players. They need to recognize and acknowledge their weaknesses and limitations, and try to play within those boundaries during competition, while also working on broadening those boundaries with specific goal-oriented practice.

The link you provided reinforces my point that trial and error is not the most efficient or beneficial way to learn or perfect what you've learned. And it also talks about how quality practice is not time-oriented. Practicing for 30 or 40 min a couple of times a day on a specific task or goal can be much more effective than beating in a 2 to 4 hour mind numbing practice session. The article is geared toward musicianship, but the research stems from a wide range of sporting activities, along with musicianship. So it can also apply to pool. For those who want to improve at a quicker rate than the traditional HAMB method allows, check this out...https://bulletproofmusician.com/how-many-hours-a-day-should-you-practice/

JoeyInCali · Feb 22, 2020

BC21 said:
I agree with all of this. Practice and playing experience is crucial in the learning process as well as the maintenance process. I don't mean to downplay it. I am just pointing out that there are thousands, if not millions, of pool players out there that practice and practice and practice, that play year after year, only to never get any better than average. Why is that?

They hear experienced players say, "you just gotta play more", or "you have to practice more". When the truth is, there's way more to it than that. They need opportunity, desire, a willingness to listen, watch, and learn from other players. They need to practice more efficiently, which is not time-oriented practice sessions, but goal-oriented sessions. They need to watch more professional pool. They need to compete against better players. They need to recognize and acknowledge their weaknesses and limitations, and try to play within those boundaries during competition, while also working on broadening those boundaries with specific goal-oriented practice.

The link you provided reinforces my point that trial and error is not the most efficient or beneficial way to learn or perfect what you've learned. And it also talks about how quality practice is not time-oriented. Practicing for 30 or 40 min a couple of times a day on a specific task or goal can be much more effective than beating in a 2 to 4 hour mind numbing practice session. The article is geared toward musicianship, but the research stems from a wide range of sporting activities, along with musicianship. So it can also apply to pool. For those who want to improve at a quicker rate than the traditional HAMB method allows, check this out...https://bulletproofmusician.com/how-many-hours-a-day-should-you-practice/

Maybe you need thousands and thousands AND thousands of hours in aiming practice?

straightline · Feb 22, 2020

Often in a room frequented by good players, the beginners distinguish themselves within a couple years. What I mean is they'll be getting out and looking competent. This is due to the base example (the good players) more than any genetic anomaly. IMO pool isn't that difficult to learn. Nor are the fundamentals that enigmatic that a few months of diligence won't get you on your feet. The ground work should take hundreds not thousands of hours.

Shot theory is pretty simple too. There are three components to a pool shot.

1) object ball to pocket

2) cue ball to object ball

3) stick to cue ball

You don't need the cognitivity (spell checker balks at this. BFD) of a physicist; just some bonehead patience till you get it.

Now if you got this stuff wired before moving on, you should already be consistent. You'll spend the thousands of hours because you dig it.

Boxcar · Feb 22, 2020

You have to know what you're doing to be good. Not everybody is able to learn that much.

BC21 · Feb 22, 2020

JoeyInCali said:
Maybe you need thousands and thousands AND thousands of hours in aiming practice?

I don't think so. I think that applies to stroke, feel, cb control, because those things rely heavily on practice and experience. And I think it takes hundreds of hours of practice to develop a good sense of aiming if the method you begin with is rooted in trial and error/guesstimation, like ghostball or traditional fractions. When it comes to aiming, if you can eliminate or reduce that trial and error you'll reduce the amount of hours needed to program your brain for automatic shot recognition. You get a lot better a lot faster.

The reason the majority of league players are not "A" players, or even "B+" is because most don't practice at all. They play one or two nights a week for a couple of hours each night. At that rate it would take 50 years to reach 10,000 hours of play. And that's not 10,000 hours of "practice." That's just 10,000 hours of repeating many of the same old bad habits and mistakes that keep you from reaching a higher skill level.

BC21 · Feb 22, 2020

Boxcar said:
You have to know what you're doing to be good. Not everybody is able to learn that much.

Yep...but you also have to at least be good at what you do know.

Boxcar · Feb 22, 2020

BC21 said:
Yep...but you also have to at least be good at what you do know.

...Well said! Those measures go hand and glove.

You have to know what you're doing to be good, but most of all, you have to be good at what you know.

bbb · Feb 23, 2020

BC21 said:
I agree with all of this. Practice and playing experience is crucial in the learning process as well as the maintenance process. I don't mean to downplay it. I am just pointing out that there are thousands, if not millions, of pool players out there that practice and practice and practice, that play year after year, only to never get any better than average. Why is that?

They hear experienced players say, "you just gotta play more", or "you have to practice more". When the truth is, there's way more to it than that. They need opportunity, desire, a willingness to listen, watch, and learn from other players. They need to practice more efficiently, which is not time-oriented practice sessions, but goal-oriented sessions. They need to watch more professional pool. They need to compete against better players. They need to recognize and acknowledge their weaknesses and limitations, and try to play within those boundaries during competition, while also working on broadening those boundaries with specific goal-oriented practice.

The link you provided reinforces my point that trial and error is not the most efficient or beneficial way to learn or perfect what you've learned. And it also talks about how quality practice is not time-oriented. Practicing for 30 or 40 min a couple of times a day on a specific task or goal can be much more effective than beating in a 2 to 4 hour mind numbing practice session. The article is geared toward musicianship, but the research stems from a wide range of sporting activities, along with musicianship. So it can also apply to pool. For those who want to improve at a quicker rate than the traditional HAMB method allows, check this out...https://bulletproofmusician.com/how-many-hours-a-day-should-you-practice/

thanks for the link
GREAT READ.....:thumbup:

duckie · Feb 29, 2020

Pool is all about placing balls where you need them to be. This applies to pocketing a OB and safety play.

Both require placing the OB somewhere on the table and placing the CB somewhere on the table.

Each shot in pool leads to the next shot.

This requires controlling the OB and CB.

This leads to controlling the table. As long as you are placing balls where you want them, you are controlling the table.

Controlling the table means you are controlling your opponent. You are controlling his shot selection by effective safety play, you are controlling how long he sits by not missing. You are in control.

You miss, you chance losing control of the table. You just give you opponent the opportunity to control you.

Basic Aiming - My thoughts and approach

duckie

GregH

BC21

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Matt_24

AzB Silver Member

Matt_24

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BC21

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duckie

GregH

BC21

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JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues

straightline

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Boxcar

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BC21

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BC21

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Boxcar

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bbb

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duckie

GregH