your thoughts on NO WARM UP STROKES

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think pool players should learn from professional golfers. The overwhelming majority go through the exact pre shot routine regardless of the shot or circumstances. I don't think the important point is whether or not warm up strokes are used or not, rather, are they employing a consistent, repeatable pre shot routine?
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think we may be on the verge of arguing semantics here.

Whether you want to call them warm up strokes, waggles, feathers, to me it's all the same. When a player gets down on the shot and does any of those, then they aren't doing what the OP is talking about.

I think it's pretty well known that most of today's players take much smaller warm up strokes (or waggles) than those of the past, but it's still different than just getting down and pulling the trigger.

Just pointing out that Jayson takes very small warmups most of the time, and sometimes doesn't take any. So, there's one pro that sometimes doesn't take any.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just pointing out that Jayson takes very small warmups most of the time, and sometimes doesn't take any. So, there's one pro that sometimes doesn't take any.

Maybe AtLarge has a stat for the percentage of times Shaw doesn't take any warm up strokes :thumbup:
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well...

It helps the timing of ones stroke.i can agree to that

Allows one to find the correct grip pressure for the shot at hand.dont understand how warm up shots do that

Stops the grip and arm from tensing up. not sure that has to be the case

Allows some players to judge speed control.agree

Gives you the ability to see if you are cueing straight through where the tip is pointing, and not across it. disagree with this.....when still you are sighting down the cue/shot line....that gives you feedback...i asume you have mastered a straight stroke

Allows you to see precisely where you are to strike the cue ball. again disagree you see where you are striking when you get down

Gives the eyes a chance to judge where the CB is heading in relation to the OB better
disagree that should be done from away from the table before you get down.

Gives that piston stroke of yours which I know you love and will defend to the death chance to look like a piston stroke dont know what history you and english have from the past but that comment is uncalled for and unnecessarily provocative and does nothing to contribute to my thread[/QUOTE]

i think i answered all in my quote of your post
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are several ways to shoot with no warmup strokes. Which hasn't been mentioned at all. One, is to just get down and shoot. I feel that way will not hold up. The other way, which I will do at times, is to make dead sure on your alignment and preshot routine, get down, and pause. During that pause, I am verifying I am on the correct line and mentally going through the exact speed I need for the placement of the cb after the shot. Also, adjusting for any english I may be applying.

Two totally different ways of doing it, with vastly different outcomes over time.

yes this is what im referring to
i spoke to the player about his style although he said the speed and english needed were all done before he stepped into the shot
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bbb

To your point about not needing warm up strokes to know where to hit the CB...

Unless you pull back perfectly straight, there's a chance when you go forward you may not hit where you think you are. So the purpose of taking warm up strokes is to groove your stroke arm along the correct line.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
yes this is what im referring to
i spoke to the player about his style although he said the speed and english needed were all done before he stepped into the shot

Yes, one should, and I do, gauge the speed before getting down. I use a centerball aiming system, so I adjust for the english once down. I know before getting down what english I want though and how much. But, during that pause, I am also repicturing in my minds eye exactly what I want to happen. Thus, again going through the speed of the shot.
 

owll

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ike runnels and glen 'piggy banks' davis both shoot with no warmup strokes.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just watched an Ike Runnels video.

He definitely doesn't shoot every shot without warm up strokes.
Nobody does. Not 100% of the time anyway. Even if the tip moves back and forward just a few mm, its still warm up strokes. I can't think of benefits from not using them.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nobody does. Not 100% of the time anyway. Even if the tip moves back and forward just a few mm, its still warm up strokes. I can't think of benefits from not using them.

The red circle on a red circle cue ball is 3mm. You are claiming that a movement even less than that distance is a warm up stroke. I think you are being a little pedantic on what constitutes a warm up stroke. While everyone else is saying he took no warm up strokes, there you are saying "oh, he moved a mm, he takes warm up strokes".
 

JeremiahGage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think pool players should learn from professional golfers. The overwhelming majority go through the exact pre shot routine regardless of the shot or circumstances. I don't think the important point is whether or not warm up strokes are used or not, rather, are they employing a consistent, repeatable pre shot routine?

Consistency should be the primary goal with your routine. I used to shoot with absolutely no practice strokes for years, but recently I have found that they can provide more rhythm to my game.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The red circle on a red circle cue ball is 3mm. You are claiming that a movement even less than that distance is a warm up stroke. I think you are being a little pedantic on what constitutes a warm up stroke. While everyone else is saying he took no warm up strokes, there you are saying "oh, he moved a mm, he takes warm up strokes".
Perhaps I was being a little pedantic, ill admit that. But I think the term warm up stroke is the wrong phrase. Or maybe it isn't. Perhaps people refer to warm up strokes as just that, strokes to loosen the arm up. People may see practice strokes as strokes that will resemble their final stroke. People might think feathering the CB is the little 3mm or so movements in the address position. The majority of pros use a feathering technique, some a combination of some or all 3. But I took the thread title to mean zero movement.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perhaps I was being a little pedantic, ill admit that. But I think the term warm up stroke is the wrong phrase. Or maybe it isn't. Perhaps people refer to warm up strokes as just that, strokes to loosen the arm up. People may see practice strokes as strokes that will resemble their final stroke. People might think feathering the CB is the little 3mm or so movements in the address position. The majority of pros use a feathering technique, some a combination of some or all 3. But I took the thread title to mean zero movement.

I could be out in left field on this, but I think most of those feathering strokes are nothing more than the fact that some people just can't be still. They have to have something moving, even a tiny amount, or they feel like they aren't doing anything.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I could be out in left field on this, but I think most of those feathering strokes are nothing more than the fact that some people just can't be still. They have to have something moving, even a tiny amount, or they feel like they aren't doing anything.
Perhaps. I tend to see feathering as a way to stop yourself from pausing too long. I know if I pause for too long, my backstroke is far to long and almost overcompensates for not moving. I've spoken to a few players in snooker over the years who just feathered the cue ball no matter what shot was at hand and they said the feathers were just a way to pinpoint exactly where they were to strike the cue ball.

A lot of darts pros use a feathering technique also. It allows them to make fine aiming adjustments and pinpoint the trajectory of the dart. I think its the same in pool - players do it to judge the trajectory of the cue through the CB. Its far easier to judge and feel the angle of approach and fine tune the aim when little feathers are used compared to no movement at all.
 

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perhaps. I tend to see feathering as a way to stop yourself from pausing too long. I know if I pause for too long, my backstroke is far to long and almost overcompensates for not moving. I've spoken to a few players in snooker over the years who just feathered the cue ball no matter what shot was at hand and they said the feathers were just a way to pinpoint exactly where they were to strike the cue ball.

A lot of darts pros use a feathering technique also. It allows them to make fine aiming adjustments and pinpoint the trajectory of the dart. I think its the same in pool - players do it to judge the trajectory of the cue through the CB. Its far easier to judge and feel the angle of approach and fine tune the aim when little feathers are used compared to no movement at all.

Feathering may be comparable to a golfers "waggle". I think the waggle may be an effort to get loose, a nervous habit or something copied from somebody else. Ray Floyd and Sergio Garcia come to mind.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Feathering may be comparable to a golfers "waggle". I think the waggle may be an effort to get loose, a nervous habit or something copied from somebody else. Ray Floyd and Sergio Garcia come to mind.
Batsmen in cricket and baseball have a waggle of the bat. There are too many sports that have something that relates to feathering that must be beneficial. Whether its to stop tension building up, a rhythm thing, pinpoint accuracy and so on.
 

pleforowicz

Registered
there have been a few threads on the snooker forum on whether or not to feather. Some people (including coaches) mentioned that feathering might not work for everybody as it teaches students to stop the cue at the cue ball thus causing DECELERATION. On the contrary others say it's useful as it enables us to get the feeling what the final bakcswing is going to feel like. Just a point what I have read out. Regards.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
there have been a few threads on the snooker forum on whether or not to feather. Some people (including coaches) mentioned that feathering might not work for everybody as it teaches students to stop the cue at the cue ball thus causing DECELERATION. On the contrary others say it's useful as it enables us to get the feeling what the final bakcswing is going to feel like. Just a point what I have read out. Regards.
If you have a pause at the back of your stroke its damn hard to decelerate on the front stroke. I've never heard of a snooker coach promoting not feathering. Most will say shorten the feathering strokes, but not stop them all together.
 

pleforowicz

Registered
I always thought that it was quite easy to decelerate, as it is said to be caused by the tightening of the grip hand too early which appears to be a common problem. I am a follower of doing max 3 feathers as I think the more feathers you have the more opportunity for your body to move and more likely to make some adjustments. Peter Ebdon does handle it nicely, though. :O
 
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