I saw the thread, opened it and determined when it started....went to the last page and saw comments I made 8 years ago. Bizarre..........lol.
APA skill level review--advice wanted
- Thread starter KMRUNOUT
- Start date
I saw the thread, opened it and determined when it started....went to the last page and saw comments I made 8 years ago. Bizarre..........lol.
It's kinda like going back in time. I'd like to respond to a post when I was about 40 lbs lighter and 20 years younger
Patience rewarded!
Well, except that she now uses a walker and hasn't played pool in nearly 25 years.
Well, except that she now uses a walker and hasn't played pool in nearly 25 years.
. Exactly! But she posts on AZ where she’s a strong 6 at least.!
Can't believe this thread is back from the dead. Here is the outcome:
1) The league operator's right hand man told me that they raised her because I played her in a must win situation, assuming she would win. LMAO. Here is why that reasoning is absurd. We were down to the last 2 matches. The other team had a 6 and a 3. We had me (a 7) and her (a 3). This is back in the 1 point per win scoring system. We needed to win both. They threw up their 3, so I played my 3 (the girl in question). She won. I smashed the 6 lol, and we won the match. It wasn't that I *chose* to play her over other options. Its all we had, we needed to win both matches.
2) I spoke to corporate, they agreed her skill level was consistent with a 3. When the new season started a week or two later, she had been moved back to a 3. Years after, her game took a turn for the worse, and she may have even gone down to a 2 again. So it was as if her brief change to a 4 never happened.
In the end, it worked out right, but the LO was 100% wrong in moving this person. Their "logic" was deeply flawed. It's a shame it happened.
She doesn't play APA any more sadly.
KMRUNOUT
Actually the drama is not confined to apa. The drama you speak of happens in any handicapped league.
I know the favorite past time for quite a few posters on here is to bash the apa but they are the only league that has provisions in place in an attempt to curb sandbagging. Their scoresheet has provisions to mark...innings....safties....early 8's....scratch on an 8 8 or 9 on the break....break and run. If the scoreshhet is filled out correctly the lo will have all the info needed to ascertain a players true skill level.
Its not just a win or loss that defines how well a person plays.....its how they won or lost.
I have played league here in Memphis for going on 12 years and know darn near every one that plays any league because I have played them all......apa....bcapl.....napa.....tap....usapl and various money leagues.
Bcapl was probably the worst for sandbagging ....then tap but usapl was getting real bad. How bad you ask ? How bout me as an apa 5/5 spotting apa 7/8's and 7/9's . One 7/9 only spotted me 3 points. One apa 5/5 as rated 70 points below me in Fargo.
Bcapl I was rated a 7...my then girlfriend was rated a 3. I dreaded the ride home after league when we played certain teams because she would be bragging available it getting more points than me. I could never get her to understand that certain players on certain teams would put break and runs on me then bang balls around for several innings till she finally sank the 8 keeping their handicaps low and raising hers. She was an apa 2 that could not run 2 balls starting with bih and yet managed to score 30 out of a possible 45 points on so called serious bcapl players. Her Fargo rate is 210....tell me how she can beat bcapl 5'-6's and 7's unless they are sandbagging.
It sounds like I am down on these other leagues but I am not. Just saying that other leagues that just mark wins/ losses are easily manipulated to hide a persons true playing ability and there is no shortage of players that will take any step possible to hide their true ability.
Sort for going off on a rant but it gets tiresome to see people bash apa ....granted some bashing is deserved but the sandbagging could be curbed if scoresheets were filled out properly. Even I have to get on some of my people some time when I see them failing to mark a safety. That's why I am always keeping score if I am not playing but I cant keep both 8 and 9 at the same time. I tell my players its simple to keep score....either a shot is offense or defense....if its not obvious they are attempting to put a ball in a pocket to mark defense.
I don't think KMRUNOUT was bashing the APA or our handicapping system. He was commenting on the LO, who should have seen that the match ups dictated who he put up in that fourth match. It often happens in a tournament that a team has a player who has to play to meet the 23 rule, but who they really don't want to play. So they try to win before that person has to play, and when they don't they are stuck putting that player up in a high pressure situation. What these teams should do instead is try to get this player in an early match where there's less pressure, but that's not always possible.
On the flip side of that is the possibility that the team intentionally saved this player until they had to play, knowing that they had an advantage and hoping to keep that advantage as long as they possibly could. I know some captains do that - they have stated so in this very forum. The two situations can sometimes be indistinguishable. Then it comes down to whether the LO trusts the individual team/captain.
On the flip side of that is the possibility that the team intentionally saved this player until they had to play, knowing that they had an advantage and hoping to keep that advantage as long as they possibly could. I know some captains do that - they have stated so in this very forum. The two situations can sometimes be indistinguishable. Then it comes down to whether the LO trusts the individual team/captain.
I agree that if safeties are marked appropriately, APA handicaps are usually quite good.
Thank you for the update!
Now she's ranked 3rd on the Woman's pro tour in Asia?
...another thing to remember is that you have to look at your player in the "overall" of
matches. If she was soundly beaten on three nights in a row there's a good chance
those matches didn't even really count in her skill level as the worst matches are
removed. On the overall, figure her last several wins or well played matches then
consider what her skill level might be from those matches. I understand the ranking
system says the last 20 matches and then the 10 best of those, so I think that's a
pretty good guideline to go with
This is part of why I don't personally like the APA and leagues that allow you to do this. I prefer the best player play the other teams best player and down the line.
I remember are 7 always having to play a 2 or a 3 (as a throw away for their team).
I do like that the games are played as races vs 1 game than sit and wait.
Also the locked after the break (8 Ball) and APA (Any Pocket Access other than the 8 Ball).
Sorry for being a little ranty here.
Oh, and get rid of that 23 point rule so people can actually grow into pool players without having to break up their team they are on...
I remember are 7 always having to play a 2 or a 3 (as a throw away for their team).
I do like that the games are played as races vs 1 game than sit and wait.
Also the locked after the break (8 Ball) and APA (Any Pocket Access other than the 8 Ball).
Sorry for being a little ranty here.
Oh, and get rid of that 23 point rule so people can actually grow into pool players without having to break up their team they are on...
Everytime I read a post or especially, an entire thread about "league play", lol... I shutter.
I miss the Pre-handicapped era in pool. You know, spot died last week.
I miss the Pre-handicapped era in pool. You know, spot died last week.
Your no fun! You could have told us that you married her, and you now have a child who is an APA 5.
We would have all be wiggling like worms on a hook.
We would have all be wiggling like worms on a hook.
Not a big strategy guy, eh?
The APA isn't a league to develop money players, it's a league to develop interest.
With your post you take away at least several reasons to have a team captain.
You have to have something like a 23 rule. Without a 23 rule there would be no need
for novice players and with that the thought of developing new players goes away,
besides, most of the novice players are girls and we like that.
Our team, or more accurately the core of our team has been together for about 25
years. People come and go, some are family, some get married and move away,
sadly some have passed, some leave town with work, some just tire of playing and
move on to bowling, or darts, softball, and so on, but for whatever reason teams can
stay together. We loved it when the APA started the Double Jeopardy leagues. Our
roster went from 8 to 12 people and still whether 8 ball wins or 9 ball wins, or both do
we all share the victory, the money, the travel. Some people grow beyond the APA,
some people start that way. It's for development of the game and the beginning to
intermediate player. I think that you might be one of the people that started out beyond
the APA. It's not for everyone, and some of us love it. I can say confidently that I'm a
player that really doesn't belong in any other league, I've tried it, I don't really fit.
I'm a teacher (not professionally, but a natural teacher), so The APA was built for
someone like me. I read all the complaints and some are valid, some are just whining,
but early on I learned reasons for things that happen the way they do. Most of it is just
part of the game, just roll with it and you too can be a happy and satisfied APA player
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I agree with all statements Pete. I’ve never played BCA but I wouldn’t like playing 1 rack at a time. I think APA masters is the way to go for league. An even race to 7 with a mix of 8 and 9 ball. I’m not sure if it’s open after the break or call pocket though in 8, should be. I only wish there was a masters league nearby.
That's about the best summary of how APA should work that I've seen. Very nice.
I appreciate your response. Sorry if I come across whiny that isn't my intention.
I started out in a league that the weakest player played the weakest and the best played the best based on winning percentage. But we played one game and waited for the team to play. It's a race of 5 games. That was and still is their format.
I then went on to APA. Liked the format of races but not seeing a good player have a lamb thrown out for the slaughter. Seemed then and still does counter productive in the grand scheme of getting better.
I also witnessed the APA breaking up teams that numbers didn't come below the 23 point limit.
As for the captain stuff. I think a good captain is great but don't like the manipulating your rosters to win like they did. I prefer wining by pool skill not throwing guppies out like feeder fish. But to each their own.
I'm truly glad that leagues like the APA are out there. I just wish there were leagues for players that aren't like you suggest (I assume quite accurately). There's a market for both and should be space for both.
I wish you all the success now and in the future sir/maam (not sure and don't wish to offend).
Pete