Splitting The Difference Aiming System

Mirza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can you provide the time into the video where he says that? But even without seeing it, I agree. How is that possible? Center CB is where you end up with Hal's Shishkabob but you're starting from inside pivoting to center. Not when you start at center pivoting to outside.

Its in the comments, not in the video.

But if I start at center and pivot to outside, body/hip pivot OR BHE pivot, I'm still getting outside english?

I don't understand this at all :)

Maybe he body pivots to outside 1/4 or edge and then with BHE gets back to that new CCB? That only makes sense to me.
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are you pretty much doing Stan's visual version of it in the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uar8s9kbqdI

I don't know, I have a hard time following his instruction in this video.

I just rotate my body to come down on to the 75% shot line from the 50% line I see in the standing position. The center of my shaft is on the vertical center of the QB and at the 75% line of the OB when down on the shot.

Merry Christmas Dave. :)

John
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Its in the comments, not in the video.

But if I start at center and pivot to outside, body/hip pivot OR BHE pivot, I'm still getting outside english?

If the tip of your cue has shifted from CCB to a tip outside of CCB why wouldn't you get some outside English?

I don't understand this at all :)

Maybe he body pivots to outside 1/4 or edge and then with BHE gets back to that new CCB? That only makes sense to me.

The most important part is Are You Making the Shots or Missing the Shots?
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I don't know, I have a hard time following his instruction in this video.

I just rotate my body to come down on to the 75% shot line from the 50% line I see in the standing position. The center of my shaft is on the vertical center of the QB and at the 75% line of the OB when down on the shot.

Merry Christmas Dave. :)

John

Do you shift your feet and body to also come down on the 75% shot line from the feet and body position of hitting a straight shot center to center?
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do you shift your feet and body to also come down on the 75% shot line from the feet and body position of hitting a straight shot center to center?

I failed to mention, I'm facing the shot line (50%) square with the shot line coming into my body. In my case my grip hand is just to the right of my belly button. (this is where I see a straight shot line).
My eyes then shift to 75% I form my standing stance (boxer style) and then rotate my body and fall down into the shooting position on the 75% shot line as my eyes see it.

What I am finding is the OB and CB on some shots have to be broken down into smaller lines. Like if you only have to cut the OB ball a hair from being straight in.
So, your right. This could be called a fractional method of pocket balls. Unless of course your a master position player and leave yourself with nothing but 15*, 30* and 45* shots all the time. :) which I am not.

John
 
Last edited:

Mirza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The most important part is Are You Making the Shots or Missing the Shots?

Well that is why I asked in the first place how is it possible to do StD as described by Little Mike and not have outside english, because that is what FaDa Vlogs wrote in the comments, that even after the pivot he is on CCB?

I'm missing most shots using StD as Mike describes it, but I do have outside on every shot, I'll try tonight or tomorrow to body pivot to aimpoint on OB and then BHE pivot back to CCB and see how that goes.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Well that is why I asked in the first place how is it possible to do StD as described by Little Mike and not have outside english, because that is what FaDa Vlogs wrote in the comments, that even after the pivot he is on CCB?

I'm missing most shots using StD as Mike describes it, but I do have outside on every shot, I'll try tonight or tomorrow to body pivot to aimpoint on OB and then BHE pivot back to CCB and see how that goes.

Try doing what I do by lining up center to center and then pivot to outside, but start with SHALLOW cuts.

Put the CB on the middle diamond on the side rail of the head side two balls away from the rail.

Put the OB the same distance (two balls away from the rail) but the next diamond down toward the center pocket. You'll be shooting these balls into the corner pocket on the same side. Do it for a right cut and also for a left cut on the other side of the table.

Line up center to center like you're going to hit it directly into the end rail to miss the corner pocket. Then pivot about 1/4 to 1/2 tip to the OUTSIDE and then stroke.
I don't know whether 1/4 tip will do it or 1/2 tip will based on your cue.

You should be able to make the shot over and over and over without missing in both directions to the corner pocket.

When you get dialed in, keep the CB at the same place on the table but move the OB down even with the side pocket; then move the OB two balls away from the first diamond beyond the pocket; then to the middle diamond past the pocket; and then to the last diamond near the corner pocket on both sides of the table.

If you pivot beyond the 1/4 or 1/2 tip and go to the 1/4 BALL position of the OB, you'll be overcutting it and will hit the side rail in front of the pocket.

Get this down pat and we'll move to other positions next.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
There was one interesting question on the latest StD video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEsG4KJbuLI):

"One thing I’m not quite understanding, when you pivot are you now off center on the cue ball?"

And FaDa Vlogs answered:

"still hitting center of cue ball."

How is that possible?

I saw that also. It makes no sense and contradicts his instructions. It makes me think he goes home, pops the top on a beer, and has a good laugh thinking about all the people out there actually trying to get this to work...lol. Like Spider says, if he's splitting the difference and then aiming CCB to there, he is simply aiming for a straight fractional hit every time.
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay, I give it a shot. This isn't easy for me to put into words. Here we go. :)

Say your shooting a shot to the left. The cue ball values would be 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%. (left to right)

You want to shoot at 75%. Starting off you line up the OB, QB and center of shaft to hit the QB at 50%. (straight shot).

Then you pivot your whole body to 75%, the new shot line. ( the cue will still be on center QB and pointed at 75%) and shoot. Pivoting just your shooting arm will put right spin on the QB. Now if you like you can add spin, just try to keep one side of the cue shaft or the other on the vertical center line of the QB

Dave, correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks

I also posted the above on the link you shared. We'll see what Ken's reply is.

Hope this helps. :)

John

Re-quote.

Got it. Took some time, had to watch "Splitting the Difference" one more time.
Watch Mike's upper body when he splits the difference from 50% to 75%.

https://youtu.be/lIUy9x_J410?t=678

So he is not just pivoting the cue. He is adjusting the upper part of his body to deliver the QB to 75%. It's a very small movement.
His method won't work by just pivot the cue. Some slow motion of this would help point the movement out.

Hope this helps Mirza.

John
 
Last edited:

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I saw that also. It makes no sense and contradicts his instructions. It makes me think he goes home, pops the top on a beer, and has a good laugh thinking about all the people out there actually trying to get this to work...lol. Like Spider says, if he's splitting the difference and then aiming CCB to there, he is simply aiming for a straight fractional hit every time.

Good point.

So now it's 0%, 12.5%,25%,37.5%, 50%,62.5%, 75%, 87.5% and 100%. I have no idea what the fractional values of these percentages would be. It is neat to mess around with this stuff.

Kinda reminds me of Joe Tuckers workout Parts 1-5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDcg6D3-tI&t=378s

John :)
 
Last edited:

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Re-quote.

Got it. Took some time, had to watch "Splitting the Difference" one more time.
Watch Mike's upper body when he splits the difference from 50% to 75%.

https://youtu.be/lIUy9x_J410?t=678

So he is not just pivoting the cue. He is adjusting the upper part of his body to deliver the QB to 75%. It's a very small movement.
His method won't work by just pivot the cue. Some slow motion of this would help point the movement out.

Hope this helps Mirza.

John

So, do you think he is hitting center CB? If he initially references CCB to center OB, then shifts to aim CCB at 75%, then why not just aim straight at 75% to start with? I mean, every time he splits the difference using the quarter aim point references, he can only use two aim lines, two shot angles -- it would either be a 3/4 aim or a 5/8 aim. He has to be hitting off center, spinning the balls in with english and a little CB squirt in order to get a variety of shot angles.

His "horizon" shots are misleading also. Everyone here knows that a half ball hit provides a shot angle between 25 and 30 degrees, depending on the exact amount of CIT that occurs. Watching Little Mike you'd think every shot that looks too thin for "split the difference" is an easy 1/2 ball shot, but that's only true if it happens to fall near 30°.
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, do you think he is hitting center CB? If he initially references CCB to center OB, then shifts to aim CCB at 75%, then why not just aim straight at 75% to start with? I mean, every time he splits the difference using the quarter aim point references, he can only use two aim lines, two shot angles -- it would either be a 3/4 aim or a 5/8 aim. He has to be hitting off center, spinning the balls in with english and a little CB squirt in order to get a variety of shot angles.

His "horizon" shots are misleading also. Everyone here knows that a half ball hit provides a shot angle between 25 and 30 degrees, depending on the exact amount of CIT that occurs. Watching Little Mike you'd think every shot that looks too thin for "split the difference" is an easy 1/2 ball shot, but that's only true if it happens to fall near 30°.

First BOLD question. Answer = Absolutely.

Second BOLD statement = he is hitting the QB with center any spin from the QB is collision induced.

Personally I like starting from a known point and not just falling down on a known angle. It gives me a reference to start from. I guess that's why I like CTE so much, It has two visuals to start from.

Merry Christmas Brian. :)

John
 
Last edited:

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
First BOLD question. Answer = Absolutely.

Second BOLD statement = he is hitting the QB with center any spin from the QB is collision induced.

Personally I like starting from a known point and not just falling down on a known angle. It gives me a reference to start from. I guess that's why I like CTE so much, It has two visuals to start from.

Merry Christmas Brian. :)

John

Merry Christmas to you, and everyone else also.
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just my opinion but I do not like the things expressed in this system, even though i do use some of it, if not all of it, TO ACHIEVE A CERTAIN EFFECT on the cueball.

This is basically the equivalent of what i invented and what Stan Shuffett expresses as a natural progression of ball pocketing that the eyes and brain develop over time in what ive always called "spin and win".

Its a necessary attack and effect, but my point is, its part of a approach that i have spent 1 year now, trying to break, in the attempt of squaring up and shooting down a true shot line, rather than shear warping. BOTH are needed but if there was one to choose from first, the true shot line is the ticket and foundation to be built on.

At the 8 minute mark and cut on the 8, i know and knew exactly what was AND is happening on this shot and before he pulls the trigger, i am figuratively screaming, do not hit even one hair right of center or else you will miss thick BAD.

I believe, but not exactly sure, that left of center must be maintained but this is a classic case of the stroke angle itself, is not congruent with a true path, because if one notices, the cb after collision, in effect, has "right" on it. Inside with a outside attack angle.

No way is that cut induced spin off the tangent line if struck down the true path.....no way.

This ingraining leads to limitations and when a square hit is required, the brain gets jammed up severely and the end result is a over cut typically and other shots, you are simply limited to what you can do vs whats required to achieve "100% cb command".

Excellent method though to be a formidable player, but 1.75 at best instead of complete at 3.0. And I repeat, what this man stresses is in fact needed to achieve all facets of cb command......but not complete on its own and a slippery slope as well and i got no problem running my mouth, because i am still trying to break the tractor beam in its entirety, caused by this approach of spin and win.

This is my opinion based off "whats there", not me reinventing a wheel, and thats why i say, "getting on the other side of the cueball".....its there and no one's imagination and certainly not mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIUy9x_J410......8 minute mark. A true delivery down the line, relative to the shot line, does not produce this effect of how the cb comes off after collision.

If im wrong and one can prove this, then im all ears. Is the difference important?....YES, unless one is truly happy with a plateau, but as soon as the words "want to get better" exit the lips, then thats where my assertions become valid.

Dont know why i need to defend myself, but im a nice guy i guess.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just my opinion but I do not like the things expressed in this system, even though i do use some of it, if not all of it, TO ACHIEVE A CERTAIN EFFECT on the cueball.

This is basically the equivalent of what i invented and what Stan Shuffett expresses as a natural progression of ball pocketing that the eyes and brain develop over time in what ive always called "spin and win".

Its a necessary attack and effect, but my point is, its part of a approach that i have spent 1 year now, trying to break, in the attempt of squaring up and shooting down a true shot line, rather than shear warping. BOTH are needed but if there was one to choose from first, the true shot line is the ticket and foundation to be built on.

At the 8 minute mark and cut on the 8, i know and knew exactly what was AND is happening on this shot and before he pulls the trigger, i am figuratively screaming, do not hit even one hair right of center or else you will miss thick BAD.

I believe, but not exactly sure, that left of center must be maintained but this is a classic case of the stroke angle itself, is not congruent with a true path, because if one notices, the cb after collision, in effect, has "right" on it. Inside with a outside attack angle.

No way is that cut induced spin off the tangent line if struck down the true path.....no way.

This ingraining leads to limitations and when a square hit is required, the brain gets jammed up severely and the end result is a over cut typically and other shots, you are simply limited to what you can do vs whats required to achieve "100% cb command".

Excellent method though to be a formidable player, but 1.75 at best instead of complete at 3.0. And I repeat, what this man stresses is in fact needed to achieve all facets of cb command......but not complete on its own and a slippery slope as well and i got no problem running my mouth, because i am still trying to break the tractor beam in its entirety, caused by this approach of spin and win.

This is my opinion based off "whats there", not me reinventing a wheel, and thats why i say, "getting on the other side of the cueball".....its there and no one's imagination and certainly not mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIUy9x_J410......8 minute mark. A true delivery down the line, relative to the shot line, does not produce this effect of how the cb comes off after collision.

If im wrong and one can prove this, then im all ears. Is the difference important?....YES, unless one is truly happy with a plateau, but as soon as the words "want to get better" exit the lips, then thats where my assertions become valid.

Dont know why i need to defend myself, but im a nice guy i guess.

I think you might be over thinking this. I just watched the video and read some comments and it seems pretty clear that this is a method for "beginners and mediocre" players. He's just showing how to pocket shallow angle shots by aiming at the center and pivoting half way to create a cut angle. More angle? Just pivot to a half ball hit. I think that's about it. Most players here are advanced by comparison and so it gets over analyzed. Sure, there are a lot of problems when you look at details, but for someone who hasn't developed a feel for cut shots, this is a help. A better investment in time would be to learn Poolology, which does the same thing this guy tries to do, but it works for all shots. Poolology also tells you what fractional hit to use. You don't have to guesstimate like this guy.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I think you might be over thinking this. I just watched the video and read some comments and it seems pretty clear that this is a method for "beginners and mediocre" players. He's just showing how to pocket shallow angle shots by aiming at the center and pivoting half way to create a cut angle. More angle? Just pivot to a half ball hit. I think that's about it. Most players here are advanced by comparison and so it gets over analyzed. Sure, there are a lot of problems when you look at details, but for someone who hasn't developed a feel for cut shots, this is a help. A better investment in time would be to learn Poolology, which does the same thing this guy tries to do, but it works for all shots. Poolology also tells you what fractional hit to use. You don't have to guesstimate like this guy.

ROTFLMAO! ROTFLMAO! ROTFLMAO!

I guess Hal Houle's SHISKABOB fits the same bill.

DAN WHITE STRIKES AGAIN!!!
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ROTFLMAO! ROTFLMAO! ROTFLMAO!

I guess Hal Houle's SHISKABOB fits the same bill.

DAN WHITE STRIKES AGAIN!!!

Uhh, OK, whatever you say. I'm making a very simple point to a video paultex posted. By all accounts in the video this is for beginners. If you believe otherwise you can state so.

Not everything is about Hal or Stan.
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think you might be over thinking this. I just watched the video and read some comments and it seems pretty clear that this is a method for "beginners and mediocre" players. He's just showing how to pocket shallow angle shots by aiming at the center and pivoting half way to create a cut angle. More angle? Just pivot to a half ball hit. I think that's about it. Most players here are advanced by comparison and so it gets over analyzed. Sure, there are a lot of problems when you look at details, but for someone who hasn't developed a feel for cut shots, this is a help. A better investment in time would be to learn Poolology, which does the same thing this guy tries to do, but it works for all shots. Poolology also tells you what fractional hit to use. You don't have to guesstimate like this guy.

Well, me being unclear as usual, that's why I said squaring up first is the better choice as a foundation, meaning a beginner or true novice.

I have to admit some progress though because now being much more ingrained with square, I don't quite have a comfortness with spin and win because I basically forgot how to execute it....basically a angled or pivoted cue, which is needed in the bag of shots for different effects.

BUT, the visual is thick and still requires a proper alignment, not just pick up a thick perception. But I am slowly starting to get it back through understanding.

So, now that I revert back to the past, with spin and win ingraining, the shot i listed on the video, to hit square down the line, requires a visual of missing the object ball edge in relation to the cb edge and that opens up a can of bandaids that is obviously subjective because how much for different cut relationships on the table etc etc.

Shoot at what you see as Stan has confirmed to me, is the correct aproach. I use his name once again because he is the only one addressing this concept and serious about it. It's important and I really don't recall any other sources stressing it as a crux to the endeavor.

Sort of like "stroke". You want to take it back relatively straight as you can blah blah and then they quickly move on to the next nuance. Yeah.......great. A whole book could probably be written on that subject but I don't know of any. The importance is monumental, just like visuals and alignment.

Anyway, rant over. Back to the table.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Uhh, OK, whatever you say. I'm making a very simple point to a video paultex posted. By all accounts in the video this is for beginners. If you believe otherwise you can state so.

Not everything is about Hal or Stan.

The RULES ARE:

OK, apparently this needs to be said again. I do not want to see anyone bashing another aiming system in any way.

If you have a positive experience with an aiming system, then feel free to post it. If you want to discuss the merits of an aiming system, then feel free. But for now, I don't want any comparisons as we all know that will just turn into bashing.


[/You post clearly was bashing another as a "beginner's aiming system" and comparing it to Poolology. You did NOTHING to discuss the MERITS of it, and there are. PLENTY.

"INNOCENT DAN" got misunderstood again. Riiiiigtht

Still trying to derail this thread, huh?!.
COLOR]
 
Top