Stroke questions. “Throwing the cue”

Cpreacher3

Registered
I’ve read that the stroke is a beautiful throwing motion. After watching Dennis O and Jeff Ignacio I’ve noticed that they actually throw the cue at or through the ball. They will hold the cue in the middle of the wrap and you can see them let go and re grip the cue at the end. The cue kinda slides through their hand as they stroke. They don’t do it on every shot, only certain ones. I’m wondering why do they do this. What benefits does this have? Is it mainly for spin? Speed control? Thanks
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I’ve read that the stroke is a beautiful throwing motion. After watching Dennis O and Jeff Ignacio I’ve noticed that they actually throw the cue at or through the ball. They will hold the cue in the middle of the wrap and you can see them let go and re grip the cue at the end. The cue kinda slides through their hand as they stroke. They don’t do it on everyone shot only certain ones. I’m wondering why do they do this. What benefits does this have? Is it mainly for spin? Speed control? Thanks
I think they mainly do it to avoid "bracing for impact" (gripping tighter during the stroke), which usually takes the tip offline.

pj
chgo
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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... I’m wondering why do they do this. What benefits does this have? Is it mainly for spin? Speed control? Thanks
In my view they learned incorrectly. The players with absolutely the best control of spin and speed would think such a practice is lunacy. Those would be the top carom players. Almost all (or maybe even all of the top 40) use rubber wraps which prevent slipping even with a light grip. And I think you would get the same incredulous looks from the snooker players.

Don't do it. It's not necessary. It's a needless complication.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
In my view they learned incorrectly. The players with absolutely the best control of spin and speed would think such a practice is lunacy. Those would be the top carom players. Almost all (or maybe even all of the top 40) use rubber wraps which prevent slipping even with a light grip. And I think you would get the same incredulous looks from the snooker players.



Don't do it. It's not necessary. It's a needless complication.



Agreed.....just because one guy finds glorious success doing something goofey doesn’t mean we need to be trying to train ourselves to do that.

Typically we call that a stroke slip.....as opposed to slip stroke there is a difference and actually Lee Brett in one of his videos describes pendulum and piston style strokes and then goes on the fumble the slip stroke definition and describes the stroke slip where that cue is sorta thrown like a dart in a way......that ain’t no slip stroke.....stroke slip it is remember that

-greyghost


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AtLarge

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I’ve read that the stroke is a beautiful throwing motion. After watching Dennis O and Jeff Ignacio I’ve noticed that they actually throw the cue at or through the ball. They will hold the cue in the middle of the wrap and you can see them let go and re grip the cue at the end. The cue kinda slides through their hand as they stroke. They don’t do it on every shot, only certain ones. I’m wondering why do they do this. What benefits does this have? Is it mainly for spin? Speed control? Thanks

If you'd like to read some debate on throwing the cue, here's a fun thread from 10 years ago: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=109237
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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Many players utilize a slip stroke on certain shots. In fact, if you use a jump cue, a slip-style stroke is very handy (freely tossing the cue into the CB with your grip hand/fingers loose, then closing/catching just after the cue contacts the CB). It's also used on long stroke shots on big tables where you want to ensure the grip hand does not affect the stroke during cb impact. It's not a needed stroke, but it is a handy stroke to know if you find yourself missing those shots often.
 

AtLarge

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Many players utilize a slip stroke on certain shots. In fact, if you use a jump cue, a slip-style stroke is very handy (freely tossing the cue into the CB with your grip hand/fingers loose, then closing/catching just after the cue contacts the CB). It's also used on long stroke shots on big tables where you want to ensure the grip hand does not affect the stroke during cb impact. It's not a needed stroke, but it is a handy stroke to know if you find yourself missing those shots often.

Slip stroke -- The grip hand slips back on the butt just prior to the forward stroke at the cue ball.

Stroke slip -- As the forward stroke at the cue ball is executed, the cue slips through the grip hand to some degree (a "throw" or "release and catch").

[As greyghost indicated in post #4 above.]
 

BC21

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Slip stroke -- The grip hand slips back on the butt just prior to the forward stroke at the cue ball.

Stroke slip -- As the forward stroke at the cue ball is executed, the cue slips through the grip hand to some degree (a "throw" or "release and catch").

[As greyghost indicated in post #4 above.]

Nice distinction. But I use both, and they feel so similar that I don't differentiate between the two, though I do understand the difference in what is happening. Whether the cue is slipping in forward or reverse motion, I've a always considered it a slip stroke.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
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The slip stroke is a powerful tool to have. It’s useful when you need wild spin. It’s very rare to pull out because usually you’d rather play with control. For example, my normal stroke isn’t developed enough to execute a full table draw but I can with a slip stroke. However I’m less percentage to bringing it back on the precise line I’m anticipating.


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greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Nice distinction. But I use both, and they feel so similar that I don't differentiate between the two, though I do understand the difference in what is happening. Whether the cue is slipping in forward or reverse motion, I've a always considered it a slip stroke.



Yes there’s always been a distinction.

One you let go going backwards and the other you let go on delivery basically speaking.

It actually really aggravated me that Lee put out that bad info and no one caught it.

The slip stroke is mainly a thing of pool antiquity today.......but in the golden years that’s how the players played.

Can’t load what it is or was by fabricating the wrong explanations or definitions

It’s how we lose knowledge of the past.....we all know this games fought things like that for long enough

-greyghost


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Bob Jewett

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The slip stroke is a powerful tool to have. ...
I think this is very bad advice. I think players who want to improve need to learn to stroke with a grip that doesn't slip, like Sayginer as one example.
 

Cpreacher3

Registered
Thanks for the old thread and the replies. I have a digi cue blue and couldnt help but fool around with this a little bit. A lot of my draw shots usually register a little tip steer on the digi cue with my normal approach. I have exporemented some with my grip and stroke trying to see what the problem is. Nothing has really made much of a difference. So after letting the cue slip through my grip naturally on the forward stroke i seem to be getting less errors on the digi cue. It feels a little smoother to me. Almost like this is how I’m supposed to be shooting some of the shots. I watched stan Shuffett’s video on stroke and grip and he mentions lightly catching the cue with back of your hand. Seems like the majority of the Filipinos do it. Maybe this is what sets their strokes apart from the rest of the world?
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
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Cpreacher3...Find a qualified instructor and get a video analysis of your stroke. You'll learn a LOT...and how to fix your issues. I've had many students who swore they were not "grabbing" the cue...video analysis and slow motion proved them wrong!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks for the old thread and the replies. I have a digi cue blue and couldnt help but fool around with this a little bit. A lot of my draw shots usually register a little tip steer on the digi cue with my normal approach. I have exporemented some with my grip and stroke trying to see what the problem is. Nothing has really made much of a difference. So after letting the cue slip through my grip naturally on the forward stroke i seem to be getting less errors on the digi cue. It feels a little smoother to me. Almost like this is how I’m supposed to be shooting some of the shots. I watched stan Shuffett’s video on stroke and grip and he mentions lightly catching the cue with back of your hand. Seems like the majority of the Filipinos do it. Maybe this is what sets their strokes apart from the rest of the world?
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Per the laws of Newtonian motion (in lay terms), an object sent straight goes straight unless interfered with--throwing the cue avoids any wrist or finger clench that interfere with a straight motion.

Throwing and catching the cue only works well for a few players, however. I agree with the above--get a good instructor to help you ground in the fundamentals. I have some throw and catch students if you want instruction in it as well.
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
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If you'd like to read some debate on throwing the cue, here's a fun thread from 10 years ago: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=109237

I read all 10 pages. The videos are not available for viewing at this time.

This is a very powerful tool to have in your arsenal. Once a mass (behind the grip hand) is set in a straight line motion it will continue to travel in a straight line unless interfered with by a grabbing of the the cue. The trick is to learn is when to catch the cue. Takes practice. Don't think of throwing...........think of pitching.
.
Like Jerry Briesath says the cue stroke is like throwing a soft ball very smoothly - release and catch.

Back to you Dave, :)

John
 
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One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I read all 10 pages. The videos are not available for viewing at this time.

This is a very powerful tool to have in your arsenal. Once a mass (behind the grip hand) is set in a straight line motion it will continue to travel in a straight line unless interfered with by a grabbing of the the cue. The trick is to learn is when to catch the cue. Takes practice. Don't think of throwing...........think of pitching.
.
Like Jerry Briesath says the cue stroke is like throwing a soft ball very smoothly - release and catch.


John

I would like to make a correction to my previous post.

After working with this method of cuing for a few days I have found that when the cue is thrown forward that there is no catching of the cue, the grip hand actually opens (not completely open) before contact with the cue ball. I guess you might say that a grip pressure is applied at the end of stroke by the back of the grip hand, depends on the shot at hand.

There seems to be no catching of the cue at end of stroke as stated in my post.

It is fun to learn a new way of executing cue delivery.

John :)
 
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JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Thanks for the old thread and the replies. I have a digi cue blue and couldnt help but fool around with this a little bit. A lot of my draw shots usually register a little tip steer on the digi cue with my normal approach. I have exporemented some with my grip and stroke trying to see what the problem is. Nothing has really made much of a difference. So after letting the cue slip through my grip naturally on the forward stroke i seem to be getting less errors on the digi cue. It feels a little smoother to me. Almost like this is how I’m supposed to be shooting some of the shots. I watched stan Shuffett’s video on stroke and grip and he mentions lightly catching the cue with back of your hand. Seems like the majority of the Filipinos do it. Maybe this is what sets their strokes apart from the rest of the world?
It's not really exclusive to the Filipinos.
Mosconi slipped the cue too.

Jeremy Jones talks about it in one of his commentary jobs.
He said Dennis does it. He said James Aranas does it.
JJ says he does it for more power and to avoid dropping the elbow.
His co-commentator, Mary Kenniston wasn't aware how common it is.

John Schmidt also says you cannot hit a target with the cue more accurately than dropping the cue on it. His example was to place a coin on the carpet and hit it with the cue tip.
He says, you won't hit the tip any more square than if you dropped the cue to it.

I catch myself doing when I have to draw the ball and I'm almost jacked up.
It leaves me no choice but to let the cue supply the power.
I also catch myself doing when I have to shoot a soft nip draw.

Of course, the pendulum stroke is the easiest to master so long as your tip is close to the cue ball on your approach.
 
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