TRAMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Our ship finally came in.
Oh, and the little crossers are good shots to know at one-pocket....
....but avoid the double-crossers.
:wave2:
I have been aiming wrong for so long
- Thread starter Shannon.spronk
- Start date
TRAMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Our ship finally came in.
Oh, and the little crossers are good shots to know at one-pocket....
....but avoid the double-crossers.
:wave2:
I think most experienced players have, either consciously or subconsciously, a similar image in their minds. One source of steering may be the conscious mind fighting against what has already been worked out.
You move around the table, if needed, to build the image in your mind of the relationship of the cue ball, object ball, and pocket, along with the table as a whole and the other balls, as you figure out pocketing the ball and where the cue ball needs to go afterwards. Once that is in the mind, all that is needed is execution, not more aiming.
I found out many years ago that I could shoot a basketball about as well (after years of playing) by looking at where I was on the floor, based on the lines of the court that were nearby, and my memory of recent movement. I didn't need to look at the goal. I had all the info I needed in my mind, and if I aligned my body and shot, trusting that knowledge, it worked fine.
I think that with a little practice, one could go through their normal pre-shot routine, and then close their eyes before each shot, and do quite well. It might even help one improve eventually, since once comfortable shooting with eyes closed, you start to notice feedback from other parts of your body more.
You have aimed well before you begin to look at the ob to make the shot. The old saying is you aim in the standing position and you shoot from the shooting position, never reversed.
Thus, by the time you look at the ob, you were aimed and lined up well before that....and now you are just ready to execute....and that means looking at the target you want to hit...
I suspect that once you are ready to begin your stroke, physically it doesn't make much difference what you look at, or whether your eyes are even open or not. All you could do would be to make some mid-stroke adjustment, and that doesn't sound promising to me.
Gently closing the eyes just before beginning a stroke would be like owning a pair of Zaphod Beeblebrox's Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses. :grin:
But I'm a lousy pool player, and have trained myself to expect unpleasant events
I suspect that once you are ready to begin your stroke, physically it doesn't make much difference what you look at, or whether your eyes are even open or not. All you could do would be to make some mid-stroke adjustment, and that doesn't sound promising to me.
Gently closing the eyes just before beginning a stroke would be like owning a pair of Zaphod Beeblebrox's Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses. :grin:
But I'm a lousy pool player, and have trained myself to expect unpleasant events
Well, yes, if your mechanics are rock solid, you could close your eyes and make the shot. ya know, like Vince in the Color of Money. I'm sure we have all done that playing with buddies just to show off.. I know I have
But, it is not highly recommended. Eventually, if you shoot every shot with your eyes closed, you might begin missing, as the brain is not sure what you are following and sooner or later it will decide what you are shooting at, and unfortunately, it won't be the object ball you wanted to make
Consistency is what pool is all about. And doing the same thing, on every shot from pre shot routine to lining up the shot to the number of practice strokes to seeing the spot on the ob your are going to hit.....
If someone can play top flight pool NOT looking at the ob, good for them. I don't know of any pro's that don't look at the ob, nor do I know of any instructors that would teach it. It's one of those "one off's".... that only works for a few folks.
True and this is part of the reason I currently focus on a spot on the aim line approx 12" in front of the CB. My stroke is good, but I am human and make errors.
After striking the CB, my tip should finish in line with the aim line someplace in front of where the CB was. Someone wrote, you look at the target you want to hit. On a left cut shot, the contact point is left of the aim line. When I look at the contact point, odds are if I make a unconscious mid stroke adjustment, it will be to stroke left of the aim line.
Focusing on the aim line 12" in front of CB has been working well for me, but it's not traditional, so I am experimenting with looking at OB last seeing the parallel lines of contact point line and aim line.
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Now, I find the statement above a compelling reason: to provide immediate feedback on how well you did what you were intending to do. Not that it will be helpful for that shot, but for later ones. Of course the reason, or reasons, things aren't happening the way one wants can be much tougher to identify and address.Well, yes, if your mechanics are rock solid, you could close your eyes and make the shot. ya know, like Vince in the Color of Money. I'm sure we have all done that playing with buddies just to show off.. I know I have
But, it is not highly recommended. Eventually, if you shoot every shot with your eyes closed, you might begin missing, as the brain is not sure what you are following and sooner or later it will decide what you are shooting at, and unfortunately, it won't be the object ball you wanted to make
The spot to hit on the OB disappears when > 30 degree cut. So what happens then? Does one guess where its at in that blank space?
Can one of you be specific on where to aim with a 60 degree cut using this method.
Thanks in advance.
Can one of you be specific on where to aim with a 60 degree cut using this method.
Thanks in advance.
Line from Bridge to CB center to OB...
The line from Bridge through CB center and onto Object Ball determines your potting line, unless you impart spin, swipe or swerve or all 3.
Granted most players swipe and add spin and swerve to make shots, it's not ideal.
I'd suggest if a player wants consistency and accuracy over time, that they find a way to take in the sensual data related to bridge position and CB position. This may be done peripherally, but one shouldn't assume that one should ignore visualization of the CB during alignment.
I often check my alignment by refusing to glance at the Object Ball once I've set the bridge, hence aligned the shot. If I cue straight through the CB and miss, then it confirms that my alignment was wrong.
The line from Bridge through CB center and onto Object Ball determines your potting line, unless you impart spin, swipe or swerve or all 3.
Granted most players swipe and add spin and swerve to make shots, it's not ideal.
I'd suggest if a player wants consistency and accuracy over time, that they find a way to take in the sensual data related to bridge position and CB position. This may be done peripherally, but one shouldn't assume that one should ignore visualization of the CB during alignment.
I often check my alignment by refusing to glance at the Object Ball once I've set the bridge, hence aligned the shot. If I cue straight through the CB and miss, then it confirms that my alignment was wrong.
All of your playing life you are going to have moments when you know that there is just a little something that you are doing that isn't exactly right or more like if you change it, that it will up your odds of success.
I always look for my references that I use and put my cue ball up so I can see where its going to play then I make adjustments and fire looking dead at my delivery point. Its the confidence that you can do it if you buckle down to do it right that will allow you to take your game way beyond where you thought you could possibly go.
Is your delivery point the contact point between CB and OB?
I can't get my head around how many people look at the cue ball last before they shoot. Not saying its wrong but I've tried it previously and its not for me. Eye patterns are very hard to learn. Especially if you've engrained a bad one into your play. For me, the eyes lead my grip hand. So if I look at the pocket I'm going to twist toward the pocket and my grip will move in the pockets direction. I've also tried looking at the contact point on the back of the ball, but again, my grip tends to wander towards it so if I pick the wrong contact point I miss, and I have a tendency to be way out every now and again on the contact point I choose, especially when I flick between CB and OB.
I basically stare at the CB when down mostly. As I get down my eyes flick between the balls to make sure I'm getting down to the correct point on the CB, then when I'm down I have ly tip resting at the CB and I again flick between the two to make sure it looks alright, then when I feather the CB all I look at is the CB to make sure I'm cueing at the right part of it. Then there's a slight pause at the cue ball, slow pull back, longer pause then my eyes switch to the OB, then pull the trigger. The pause gives the eyes time to adjust depending on how well your eyesight is. I don't look at a particular spot on the OB, just sort of see the OB as a whole. Peoples strokes tend to replicate their back swing. If that's straight then the forward swing will be straight. So, as I look at the cue ball I make sure I pull back perfectly straight from where I want to hit and I know I'll stroke straight, providing my eyes don't wander too far away from the OB.
I basically stare at the CB when down mostly. As I get down my eyes flick between the balls to make sure I'm getting down to the correct point on the CB, then when I'm down I have ly tip resting at the CB and I again flick between the two to make sure it looks alright, then when I feather the CB all I look at is the CB to make sure I'm cueing at the right part of it. Then there's a slight pause at the cue ball, slow pull back, longer pause then my eyes switch to the OB, then pull the trigger. The pause gives the eyes time to adjust depending on how well your eyesight is. I don't look at a particular spot on the OB, just sort of see the OB as a whole. Peoples strokes tend to replicate their back swing. If that's straight then the forward swing will be straight. So, as I look at the cue ball I make sure I pull back perfectly straight from where I want to hit and I know I'll stroke straight, providing my eyes don't wander too far away from the OB.
I wonder if the method that suits someone best can be different depending on what their current flaw is ?
If people are not consistently hitting the CB in the spot they intend, looking at CB last will probably help them. When/if they get consistent with hitting the CB where intended, changing to OB last makes sense.
Maybe I should post the question in the instructors forum ?
If people are not consistently hitting the CB in the spot they intend, looking at CB last will probably help them. When/if they get consistent with hitting the CB where intended, changing to OB last makes sense.
Maybe I should post the question in the instructors forum ?
Banks
Banned
That's sort of what I was thinking - part of a natural progression. I think I looked at the CB last for a while, but when I was shooting the other night, I saw that my focus was normally on the OB last, but I shoot a bit better than I used to.
Good question. Was hoping that we would get some replies on this. I remember someone asking Efren how he aims. He supposedly said with the edge. If you think about it, by using the edge, you are never out into space but on a part of the ball. Makes sense to me. However, I would like to hear some replies as to how you align and your head and eye positioning. When I do this there are some shots that I really make easily. Then there are others, especially the long thin cuts that I miss badly, Is it purely a case of align the edge then parallel over? Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
"Aiming with the edge" could easily be interpreted as aiming relative to the edge (inside or outside). For examples of how this can be done, see:
NV D.9 - How to Aim Pool Shots - from Vol-II of the Billiard University instructional DVD series
Regards,
Dave
Hi Colin,
That statement of yours that I highlighted is HUGE as it contains a Huge IF.
Do you assume that your stroke was straight only guided by information gained prior to setting your bridge, cue & body on 'a' line? Or could it be that your subconscious decided that your alignment was wrong & it, your subconscious, decided to change the stroke to compensate for what it perceived was an incorrect alignment?
In reality could not both the alignment AND the stroke have been off & incorrect? Also, how would you know since you basically have shot the shot with your eyes basically closed by not using them after you have taken position to 'check" what you thought & decided while up.
Thanks in advance for any response,
Rick
I am confident that my stroke contributes almost insignificant deflection from the aligned line of shot, which is determined by my bridge placement.
While I can create deflection by swiping or off center line hitting, a couple of tests I have done assure me that when I cue reasonably straight, any cueing deflection is insignificant.
Firstly, I'm familiar with my effective pivot point and usually bridge at this point and having practiced a lot of aim and pivot, I rely heavily of pre-alignment and keeping a steady bridge during pivoting and cueing through a straight, not swiping line.
Secondly, I've done testing with a fixed rest, with fixed CB and OB positions about 5 feet apart and OB about 20 inches from the pocket. Even with slightly awkward cueing, over the mechanical bridge, I was able to pocket the OB 50 times in a row without ever looking at the OB, instead, simply trying to hit the CB center with minimal swiping.
I don't think it's actually very hard to stroke straight enough. I think the main cause of swiping is sub-conscious adjustment to perceptions of misalignment. Almost every player, apart from the world's best cueists have this habit of swiping to some degree to create the angle they need to make shots from my observations. Many also make slight bridge movements to accommodate an alignment correction during the stroke.
A good test of alignment is looking only at the CB after the bridge has been set and hitting hard and straight. It's noteworthy that the hard center CB shot is the least favorite of the habitual swiper / bridge shifter, as it makes post-alignment adjustments much more difficult.
imho, most players wrongly assume their pre-alignment is accurate, hence they blame their errors on mysterious stroking errors. FWIW, most players align to undercut balls, then swipe and or bridge shift to create the required thinner cut angle.
Colin,
Thank you for your response.
For the most part I fine tune once down whenever I get down & perceive that I am a bit off. I 'feel' that I see or 'feel' the line better once down with a low head/eye position vs a standing tall high head/eye position. Similar to you but instead of the OB it is the pocket for me that I do not 'look' at but merely 'perceive' or 'see' subliminally. My focus is on the specific 'areas' of the object ball that I want to make contact with the cue ball. My focus is to put the CB where I want to put it. I've shot with english on nearly every shot for about 45 yrs. & now use both english & TOI. So... I've hardly ever wanted to hit the cue ball 'straight' & never really 'aimed' per say as opposed to targeting & especially not with the non LD shafts of yesteryear. I guess there is more than one way to play the game.
Thanks again for your input.
Rick
PS As age has taken it's toll, I am starting to consider hitting more shots on the vertical axis, especially since I've started playing some one pocket & have to hit so many shots so softly.
Thank you for your response.
For the most part I fine tune once down whenever I get down & perceive that I am a bit off. I 'feel' that I see or 'feel' the line better once down with a low head/eye position vs a standing tall high head/eye position. Similar to you but instead of the OB it is the pocket for me that I do not 'look' at but merely 'perceive' or 'see' subliminally. My focus is on the specific 'areas' of the object ball that I want to make contact with the cue ball. My focus is to put the CB where I want to put it. I've shot with english on nearly every shot for about 45 yrs. & now use both english & TOI. So... I've hardly ever wanted to hit the cue ball 'straight' & never really 'aimed' per say as opposed to targeting & especially not with the non LD shafts of yesteryear. I guess there is more than one way to play the game.
Thanks again for your input.
Rick
PS As age has taken it's toll, I am starting to consider hitting more shots on the vertical axis, especially since I've started playing some one pocket & have to hit so many shots so softly.
You're welcome Rick!
It sounds pretty similar to how I align. I just don't rely so much on looking at the OB after I have set my bridge for the final aim. After 40 years of trial and error, I guess we have to settle on something that works for us eventually