Saratoga Rule.

a1712

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Playing Saratoga League last night we had a rule question come up that everyone was divided on and we really don't know the actual ruling. A guy broke dry and his opponent came to the table without a good shot at either the 1 or 9. He kicked at the 9 missing it. The cueball continued on it's path hitting the 1 ball sending it to the rail. The guy that broke walks to the table and picks the cueball up. I protested it was not a foul due to the fact he hit the lowest ball of a set and a ball hit a rail, seeing that the table was still open. Their argument was he was shooting for the 9 ball and missed it. Does anyone know the correct ruling on this. Thanks all, Brian.
 

Bca8ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Playing Saratoga League last night we had a rule question come up that everyone was divided on and we really don't know the actual ruling. A guy broke dry and his opponent came to the table without a good shot at either the 1 or 9. He kicked at the 9 missing it. The cueball continued on it's path hitting the 1 ball sending it to the rail. The guy that broke walks to the table and picks the cueball up. I protested it was not a foul due to the fact he hit the lowest ball of a set and a ball hit a rail, seeing that the table was still open. Their argument was he was shooting for the 9 ball and missed it. Does anyone know the correct ruling on this. Thanks all, Brian.

To avoid these types of issues, league directors typically adapt specific rulings/definitions. This is common enough regardless of league so it should be defined. A league (and/or tournament) director can interpret a specific ruling as they choose for their league/tournament.

I understand the dilemma as Saratoga is a call ball/call pocket game; however, in the absence of a prior ruling, the same application of rules should apply as with all open tables regardless of the intended object ball. Additionally, in the absence of a referee, the cue ball should not have been picked up without an acknowledgement of a foul.

The rules state "You have to contact the lowest ball of your kind (lowest of either one if table is open)". In your case, it is not a foul; however, if the one ball was pocketed it would still be an open table and would fall under the legal slop rule...lost of turn and the incoming player has the option of giving the shot back.

Same as BCA while shooting at a stripe on an open table; but contacting a solid first instead. A pocketed ball doesn't count as it wasn't the called intent; however, it isn't a foul as long as the rail/contact rule was met on a "open table". You simply can't hit your opponents suit if the table is open and suits haven't been declared but you still have to meet the call ball/pocket rule.

Shorter version:
No foul on the shooter.
The breaker fouled once he picked up the cue ball.

Hopefully, they simply enjoyed the debate and agreed to re-break the rack.
 

a1712

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
To avoid these types of issues, league directors typically adapt specific rulings/definitions. This is common enough regardless of league so it should be defined. A league (and/or tournament) director can interpret a specific ruling as they choose for their league/tournament.

I understand the dilemma as Saratoga is a call ball/call pocket game; however, in the absence of a prior ruling, the same application of rules should apply as with all open tables regardless of the intended object ball. Additionally, in the absence of a referee, the cue ball should not have been picked up without an acknowledgement of a foul.

The rules state "You have to contact the lowest ball of your kind (lowest of either one if table is open)". In your case, it is not a foul; however, if the one ball was pocketed it would still be an open table and would fall under the legal slop rule...lost of turn and the incoming player has the option of giving the shot back.

Same as BCA while shooting at a stripe on an open table; but contacting a solid first instead. A pocketed ball doesn't count as it wasn't the called intent; however, it isn't a foul as long as the rail/contact rule was met on a "open table". You simply can't hit your opponents suit if the table is open and suits haven't been declared but you still have to meet the call ball/pocket rule.

Shorter version:
No foul on the shooter.
The breaker fouled once he picked up the cue ball.

Hopefully, they simply enjoyed the debate and agreed to re-break the rack.

Actually the League Operator is my Captain and the person I was debating the issue with was him. The shooter for our team allowed his opponent to replace the cueball from where it was picked up and continued from there. Thanks for the response, Brian.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In every rule set I have seen, even if you miss a called shot, as long as you make a legal hit on any legal ball, that is not a foul, just a miss.

It's a bit odd that someone thought it would be a foul.

I think maybe in 7 ball if you miss a called shot it's then ball in hand but I could be wrong.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In every rule set I have seen, even if you miss a called shot, as long as you make a legal hit on any legal ball, that is not a foul, just a miss.

I agree with this, but I'm not familiar with Saratoga, it may have different rules.
 

tatcat2000

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Same as BCA while shooting at a stripe on an open table; but contacting a solid first instead. A pocketed ball doesn't count as it wasn't the called intent; however, it isn't a foul as long as the rail/contact rule was met on a "open table". You simply can't hit your opponents suit if the table is open and suits haven't been declared but you still have to meet the call ball/pocket rule.

Just to be clear, under WSR or CSI / BCAPL rules, on an open table either group may be contacted first to pocket a called ball of the other group. A solid-stripe or stripe solid combination is legal on an open table. Just can't hit the 8 first. CSI Rule 2-5, WSR Rule 3-4.

Buddy
 

Pool101vpweb

Lessons, exotics/repair
It's my understanding that it's an "Open Break" so the original break shooter should have the option to "push out" just like in 9 ball. Your rule should not have come into question as the rules opted for a push out. Open break means you continue to shoot even if you hadn't made a ball.

Hope that helps,
Aaron
 
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