The point of McDermott I shafts?

scassidy77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This isn't meant to offend McDermott fans out there. But it's this kind of random crap that pops in my head when I lay down at night.. I'm trying to figure out what the point is of McDermott I shafts? What is thier intended purpose or why were they made? For the price point of these shafts, you would expect them to do something spectacular or something. But, they are just a basic shaft. Not low deflection or anything, just a regular shaft at twice the cost. Am I missing something here? Just trying to figure out why they were made and for what purpose? Other than the obvious (to play pool). Or (to make money). I'm sure they had something in mind when making them.
I played around for a bit with one a buddy had and the deflection was terrible on it IMO. Thanks.
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
You answered your own question of "why were they made?".
Purely for the money.
IMO, there is nothing special about the McD 'i'shaft.
Once Predator opened the L/D market, several other cue companies wanted in on the action.
These companies all came up with their own 'me too' version. They've all fallen short.
Predator spent millions on engineering and R&D. Their accomplishment is legendary.
At first, Predator had no competition, they had the nuts and they earned it.
The marketing depts. of other cue companies went crazy.
First with "why didn't we think of this?"
2nd, "we can ride this cash-cow too."
You're familiar with the phrase "riding the coat-tails" correct? A perfect example.

As stated, Predator did the engineering, everyone else just copied.
Hype and marketing are much cheaper than engineering so why re-invent the wheel?
That would mean that they'd have to surpass Predator technology or at least compete.
They (the competition) have been at it for more than 20 yrs now.
Maybe they'll get lucky.

KJ
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This isn't meant to offend McDermott fans out there. But it's this kind of random crap that pops in my head when I lay down at night.. I'm trying to figure out what the point is of McDermott I shafts? What is thier intended purpose or why were they made? For the price point of these shafts, you would expect them to do something spectacular or something. But, they are just a basic shaft. Not low deflection or anything, just a regular shaft at twice the cost. Am I missing something here? Just trying to figure out why they were made and for what purpose? Other than the obvious (to play pool). Or (to make money). I'm sure they had something in mind when making them.
I played around for a bit with one a buddy had and the deflection was terrible on it IMO. Thanks.

maybe its all relevant? What is low deflection? Compared to their standard maple shafts, maybe they ARE low deflection? I don't know, just posing a possible reason.

You answered your own question of "why were they made?".
Purely for the money.
IMO, there is nothing special about the McD 'i'shaft.
Once Predator opened the L/D market, several other cue companies wanted in on the action.
These companies all came up with their own 'me too' version. They've all fallen short.
Predator spent millions on engineering and R&D. Their accomplishment is legendary.
At first, Predator had no competition, they had the nuts and they earned it.
The marketing depts. of other cue companies went crazy.
First with "why didn't we think of this?"
2nd, "we can ride this cash-cow too."
You're familiar with the phrase "riding the coat-tails" correct? A perfect example.

As stated, Predator did the engineering, everyone else just copied.
Hype and marketing are much cheaper than engineering so why re-invent the wheel?
That would mean that they'd have to surpass Predator technology or at least compete.
They (the competition) have been at it for more than 20 yrs now.
Maybe they'll get lucky.

KJ

As for everyone copying predator, its just product evolution. I'm sure predator "copied" the first person who decided to put a piece of leather on the end of a stick? And I thought I read somewhere that Meucci started the LD movement waaaaay before Predator. Could be wrong though.
 

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not a true ld shaft,but they are lower them solid maple.
Carbon fiber core makes for radial consistancy. Think "Revo" inside a maple shaft.

I play with 1 and love it. Cant stand predator,miscued shooting over ball with my Jacoby edge. Liked the Edge shaft except for that problem.

Tips stay on unlike another brand and ferrules dont crack like the advertising guru's.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not a true ld shaft,but they are lower them solid maple.
Carbon fiber core makes for radial consistancy. Think "Revo" inside a maple shaft.

I play with 1 and love it. Cant stand predator,miscued shooting over ball with my Jacoby edge. Liked the Edge shaft except for that problem.
The shaft caused a miscue while over a ball?? Want to elaborate a little cause i don't believe that's possible.
 

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The shaft caused a miscue while over a ball?? Want to elaborate a little cause i don't believe that's possible.

I was told low end mass makes for greater miscue possibillity. Shaft deflects rather then the ball. I dont know the exact cause all I know is it did happen.
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is not one single shaft that fits every player. Opinions will always vary. As for low deflection shafts, there were experimenting with hollowed out shafts back in the 50's in Canada. Flat laminated shafts were offered by Dufferin long ago. Some shafts had red veneers and some had green veneers. Radial splice, the first I saw was from Predator. To sum it up, when everyone thinks and plays the same. Maybe then, one style shaft will work.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is not one single shaft that fits every player. Opinions will always vary. As for low deflection shafts, there were experimenting with hollowed out shafts back in the 50's in Canada. Flat laminated shafts were offered by Dufferin long ago. Some shafts had red veneers and some had green veneers. Radial splice, the first I saw was from Predator. To sum it up, when everyone thinks and plays the same. Maybe then, one style shaft will work.

Do you know when Dominiak started doing pie shafts? I kinda sorta remember that being around before Predator did.
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is not one single shaft that fits every player. Opinions will always vary. As for low deflection shafts, there were experimenting with hollowed out shafts back in the 50's in Canada. Flat laminated shafts were offered by Dufferin long ago.

Yup.

Add to that various experimentation with shorter and/or lighter ferrules going back several decades with the intention of manipulating end mass and playing characteristics, easily to the early seventies and late sixties.

We also saw some longer cues back then, when 57 inches was the norm, some were making 60 inch customs.

Many features we see in modern technology cues has roots that go back farther than some suspect. Even the use of carbon fiber. A nice example of that was the McDermott Balcini cue. Indeed, it was not the kind of CF we see in BeCue and Revo, but it was CF from a prominent cue maker.

What I see in cues is the same thing I see in such things as Harley Davidson. Many (most) of what people recognize as a "Harley thing" was designed in some chopper builder's garage. The Softail? Not a Harley design, they bought it from a chopper builder. Forward controls? Again a chopper thing. There are many examples.

There is in fact little in the modern designs of cues that wasn't thought of and done in some capacity decades before. It is the combination of the technologies and the application of the technologies that is new, as well as a higher level of investment in the technical aspects of the engineering.

People will prefer different things. No one design is best for all as you say.

.
 
Last edited:

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do you know when Dominiak started doing pie shafts? I kinda sorta remember that being around before Predator did.


The same question could be asked about Jerry Powers. I first saw Predators in the early 90's. That's when Alan and Darrin controlled it. I miss them. My answer is, I don't know the answer.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I was told low end mass makes for greater miscue possibillity. Shaft deflects rather then the ball.
You were told wrong (happens all the time, even on here). Shaft flexibility has little/nothing to do with CB deflection (LD), and I doubt it has anything to do with miscues.

I dont know the exact cause all I know is it did happen.
Most likely causes (as usual):
- hit too far from center of CB
- chalk "bald spot"
- both

pj
chgo
 

eihi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You answered your own question of "why were they made?".
Purely for the money.
IMO, there is nothing special about the McD 'i'shaft.
Once Predator opened the L/D market, several other cue companies wanted in on the action.
These companies all came up with their own 'me too' version. They've all fallen short.
Predator spent millions on engineering and R&D. Their accomplishment is legendary.
At first, Predator had no competition, they had the nuts and they earned it.
The marketing depts. of other cue companies went crazy.
First with "why didn't we think of this?"
2nd, "we can ride this cash-cow too."
You're familiar with the phrase "riding the coat-tails" correct? A perfect example.

As stated, Predator did the engineering, everyone else just copied.
Hype and marketing are much cheaper than engineering so why re-invent the wheel?
That would mean that they'd have to surpass Predator technology or at least compete.
They (the competition) have been at it for more than 20 yrs now.
Maybe they'll get lucky.

KJ
I know Meucci isn't to highly regarded around these forums, and I haven't picked up one his cues in 20+ plus years, but I feel he was really a pioneer of LD, what are your thoughts?
I am not nearly as knowledgeable as a lot of people on the forums and if my opinion isn't based on fact feel free to correct me.
 

$TAKE HOR$E

champagne - campaign
Silver Member
Imitation is the is the sincerest form of...$$$$
 

Attachments

  • TCOM.jpeg
    TCOM.jpeg
    46.9 KB · Views: 543

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know Meucci isn't to highly regarded around these forums, and I haven't picked up one his cues in 20+ plus years, but I feel he was really a pioneer of LD, what are your thoughts?
I am not nearly as knowledgeable as a lot of people on the forums and if my opinion isn't based on fact feel free to correct me.
First time i ever heard of deflection was in the first Meucci "Crossing the Delaware" catalog. Bob was one of, if the first makers to take deflection into consideration .
 

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You were told wrong (happens all the time, even on here). Shaft flexibility has little/nothing to do with CB deflection (LD), and I doubt it has anything to do with miscues.


Most likely causes (as usual):
- hit too far from center of CB
- chalk "bald spot"
- both

pj
chgo

I never said flexabillity. I said low end mass
I have heard same about OB shafts.
 

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know Meucci isn't to highly regarded around these forums, and I haven't picked up one his cues in 20+ plus years, but I feel he was really a pioneer of LD, what are your thoughts?
I am not nearly as knowledgeable as a lot of people on the forums and if my opinion isn't based on fact feel free to correct me.


I can tell you as a Cue maker. I have nothing but respect for Mr. Meucci and his contributions to Cue making.
 

tableroll

Rolling Thunder
Silver Member
This isn't meant to offend McDermott fans out there. But it's this kind of random crap that pops in my head when I lay down at night.. I'm trying to figure out what the point is of McDermott I shafts? What is thier intended purpose or why were they made? For the price point of these shafts, you would expect them to do something spectacular or something. But, they are just a basic shaft. Not low deflection or anything, just a regular shaft at twice the cost. Am I missing something here? Just trying to figure out why they were made and for what purpose? Other than the obvious (to play pool). Or (to make money). I'm sure they had something in mind when making them.
I played around for a bit with one a buddy had and the deflection was terrible on it IMO. Thanks.

I feel the same about my Samsara "True" shaft. If I had to do it over again I would pay only for their standard shaft. The deflection on it is the same as a standard shaft.
 

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You were told wrong (happens all the time, even on here). Shaft flexibility has little/nothing to do with CB deflection (LD), and I doubt it has anything to do with miscues.





Most likely causes (as usual):

- hit too far from center of CB

- chalk "bald spot"

- both



pj

chgo



He didn't mention shaft flexibility. He mentioned shaft end mass, which has plenty to do with deflection

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
He didn't mention shaft flexibility. He mentioned shaft end mass, which has plenty to do with deflection

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
Oops - I missed that. Maybe confusion over the term "deflection"... (CB deflection or shaft deflection?)

Yes, end mass has everything to do with CB deflection. But I don't believe end mass has anything to do with miscues either.

pj
chgo
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I never said flexabillity. I said low end mass
I have heard same about OB shafts.
Yep, sorry I missed that. Here's what I said to KMRUNOUT:

Maybe confusion over the term "deflection"... (CB deflection or shaft deflection?)
Yes, end mass has everything to do with CB deflection. But I don't believe end mass has anything to do with miscues either.


pj
chgo
 
Top