http://www.fws.gov/news/ShowNews.cf...for-african-elephant-conservation:-&_ID=35686
More laws from the idiots.
More laws from the idiots.
Newest Ivory Laws
- Thread starter VernQ
- Start date
riskytrousers
Registered
Sounds fair to me.
So does this mean you can buy a new cue that contains 7oz of Ivory without concern nation wide? Just curious how others have initially interpreted this? How many cues are out there with more than 7oz of Ivory in them? Bava, I'm sure you know about how much Ivory weight are in your recent builds, please comment. Thx
You aren't reading it correctly. First it says PRE EXISTING, which doesn't mean NEW. Second it says CERTAIN, which doesn't specify cues.
Considering Dept. of Fish and Wildlife already caught and prosecuted certain someones for cue related ivory violations, I'm not sure they are likely to make exceptions.
Considering there are superior materials available, it isn't and shouldn't be a huge deal to anyone who doesn't currently have a large stockpile.
And before we all start crying, let's remember that it is greed and human apathy that has fueled all this. If humans weren't so gung ho to pay top dollar for dead animal parts, then none of this would have happened.
It's the same strain of assholes that cut the upper beak off a pelican because it was hungry and tried to eat a bait with a hook on it. God forbid it does what is natural and prevents some POS from catching a fish.
Hi,
I have not read the entire paper.
Question:
Can ivory merchants still sell us material over a state line.
I think I know the answer.
Rick
Will the American Cuemakers Association or any other group of cuemakers and or cue buyers go to court to fight this executive order?
The fight against it will be bigger than just cuemakers, but cuemakers will be given the opportunity to support the effort to overturn it when the time comes. The fight to overturn the California law has already begun. But it will be months before anymore action is taken.
Thanks, Chris
Seems like a money pit to me. If anyone who mattered wanted to make concessions, it would have been written in.
The honest people don't have enough money to make it change and the dishonest people have enough money to keep it under the radar.
If Trump wins, over turning it has a good chance. If Hillary wins it will be a harder battle. The basic argument against the California law is that it renders valuable privately held property as worthless. It is kind like an illegal seizure of property.
It's a tough sell, considering most Americans don't own any ivory. At least the one's I know anyway.
Bottom line is it comes down to greed.....If there was truly a viable solution aside from a complete ban, I'd like to hear it.
Seems Dems love to take private property.
Roosevelt did a similar thing with gold in the 30's. You were allowed to keep a small amount, the rest had to be converted to paper money. Yes, you did get paper money for your gold. What a deal.
What happened to all that gold-can you say Ft. Knox? Uncle Sam needed the gold more than his citizens.
When the government offers you a deal-buy and supply your own lubricant. Otherwise, OUCH!
Roosevelt did a similar thing with gold in the 30's. You were allowed to keep a small amount, the rest had to be converted to paper money. Yes, you did get paper money for your gold. What a deal.
What happened to all that gold-can you say Ft. Knox? Uncle Sam needed the gold more than his citizens.
When the government offers you a deal-buy and supply your own lubricant. Otherwise, OUCH!
I don't see where the government is taking anything except resale value. Yes, that sucks.
Honestly, what's the enamor with ivory anyway? Status symbol in China? Yah that's worth slaughtering a majestic creature, taking it's tusks, and leaving it's body to rot. What's wrong with that? Shoot Americans did that with the bison because the pelts were worth money.
Want a solution to all this "liberal" bullcrap? Easy. You make it legal. You sell ALL the confiscated ivory and use the money for enforcement. Poachers get life sentences.
Then again, this probably wouldn't work because humans are so obsessed that demand would be higher than supply. It's also pretty hard to argue the point with someone who's accustomed to making 1-10 dollars a day. Hmmmn, make 5 dollars or 500 dollars in a day? How many of us would kill an elephant to earn 100 times our daily wage? Many of us aren't accustomed to starving either.....
Happens every day right here in America. There are still plenty of people in the U.S. who do not have enough to eat.
Some people don't want to work for a living so pushing dope makes big money with little manual labor. Risk-absolutely but no risk, no reward. Just like gambling, huh?
And you say the government is taking nothing? If you have a cue that contains ivory and desire to sell it but it is now illegal, have you not lost value? Many cuemakers have legal ivory but soon the only value will be in the black market. Few want to take that kind of risk.
You do not seem real concerned because your ox is not being gored. Perhaps in the near future your liberal California government will decide that owning cuemaking equipment should be illegal-after all, you might use it to build an ivory laden cue(horror of horrors). By your logic, you won't have lost anything. You still have the equipment but you cannot legally sell it. That in itself may not be a bad thing-you will have more time to fish.
My ox isn't being gored...sir, you don't know what I do for a living.:thumbup: Look up Regional MPA statistics and see how many square miles of ocean I can no longer fish at all. Look at the Cow Cod Conservation Zones and see how many areas I can't fish deeper than 20 fathoms. See that limits for rockfish, bass, and other species have been reduced by 30-50%. Between the COMPLETE closures, the fact I can't fish deeper than 60 fathoms at all, and the CCCZ, I've lost 1000's of square miles of fishing area. For 2 months out of the year, January and February, I can't even fish for rockfish. Yah, great surface fishing during those two months too, LMFAO.
NOW, all of these closures rely heavily on guess work, whereas it's pretty easy to see the slaughter of elephants...isn't it?
SO, now here we are. It's unfortunate about those who won't be able to resell their ivory cues legally, but the writing has been on the wall for a long time. I'm really sorry for the guys who have a bunch of ivory laying around, but besides Joe Barringer(who I hope has LOTS), who stockpiles it?
You'd like to fight this sort of thing? So would I. How? You need money...lots of money. Same sort of problem we had when they shut us down here in SOCAL. That was about FISH. Your other problem is the majority of Americans couldn't care less about your cues or collectibles. They see a dead elephant corpse laying in the sun, rotting, with it's tusks ripped out. In fact, that is what I see too. What do you see? Is it parts that might be useful in a cue? If that is the case then you are as guilty as anyone for the new laws.
Are the statistics wrong about ivory still being imported illegally? There is still money in it, so I'll say...NO. Big white hunter was allowed to bring his elephant tusks home as a trophy in spite of the original ban(see footnote under "if you have money, you are excused"), because stalking and killing an elusive and sneaky 7 ton animal is certainly an indication that one is truly a man....
It's unfortunate that it came to this, and who knows if this is even going to help. Humans tend to sidestep the law when it's in their financial interest anyway. It's possible that it could get amended, but I wouldn't count on it. Like the feel good gun laws that really do nothing but hurt law abiding citizens, they are meant only to gain favor among ignorant voters....
Lastly, don't mistake my pragmatism for apathy...
I never see apathy in your posts, rather. a large dose of passion(to wit-fishing for a living)
My view is that a small group of people are working hard to control everyone and everything. I do not take issue with the thought that elephants need protection and conservation. How it is accomplished is another matter.
Currently, ivory sells in the U.S. for 60 -175 dollars a pound. The market is small and moving dope is a heck of a lot more profitable. The anti-ivory folks touted $1500 a pound which is not correct.
I have no problem with not allowing further imports of ivory. It has been illegal for 26 years or so but so has illegally crossing the borders of the U.S. We have not effectively halted either, I guess.
If the government wants to control this ivory and stop its use plus cause your items to be worthless, they should pay for those items. We seem to have plenty of money to take care of illegal immigrants, non-working welfare folks, and any other Liberal thought that crosses politicians minds. Print more money because we do it all the time anyway.
I know, I know, my rant has edged out of the ivory discussion but I see this type law as an extension of a leftist government taking control of every aspect of our lives. We are fast approaching a socialistic government and many people and politicians see that as a fine thing(and no, I am not placing you in that category).
Seems we are on the same page. I doubt a buy out would be feasible, since artwork isn't easy to appraise(at least cues.....good luck with that). It's also apparent that the powers that be don't care about it.
There are alternatives to ivory, but even perfect copies yield to the real thing oftentimes. Look at diamonds and the job DaBeers did on convincing women that the need a big diamond on their finger. MOST people can't tell the difference between Zirconia and the real thing, yet we can feel like we are cheapskates if we don't get real diamonds....
I'm sorry to those who can't or won't try and sell their cues, if they really need the money, because of the law. Maybe all isn't lost yet. Again the problem is money....always will be.
Adapt or die.....
P.S. I truly appreciate your approach to the discussion. None of what I said was meant to be an attack. You countered my argument with an intellectual response and I respect that. I'm SO tired of politics turning violent that it makes me f'n ill. Every day people are getting beat up for WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT. Even worse....people blowing themselves up for WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT. Meanwhile, let's talk about helping to disarm law abiding Americans....
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speaking of poaching elephants....
theres a douche locally who went kill a giraffe in africa.....
was at a local bar and hes bragging to a bunch of women....how the giraffe neck and head is on the wall in his house.....
i was a little drunk so couldn't help myself....
"wow...killed a giraffe huh"
yea
"man, what that cost"
50k$
"holy chit!......what did you use, did you choke it out?"
lol no, a big bow and arrow
"man....that musta been tough, were you scared? did it charge you? i mean lions and tigers and bears oh my but i think they just like leaves high in the trees "
not sure i get your point
"oh just what your next hunts gonna be.....if you ever planned on going to australia to kill any koala bears"
cat was pretty pissed...all his little ladies enjoying his story scattered like koalas being chased by a poacher lmfao.
theres a douche locally who went kill a giraffe in africa.....
was at a local bar and hes bragging to a bunch of women....how the giraffe neck and head is on the wall in his house.....
i was a little drunk so couldn't help myself....
"wow...killed a giraffe huh"
yea
"man, what that cost"
50k$
"holy chit!......what did you use, did you choke it out?"
lol no, a big bow and arrow
"man....that musta been tough, were you scared? did it charge you? i mean lions and tigers and bears oh my but i think they just like leaves high in the trees "
not sure i get your point
"oh just what your next hunts gonna be.....if you ever planned on going to australia to kill any koala bears"
cat was pretty pissed...all his little ladies enjoying his story scattered like koalas being chased by a poacher lmfao.