Earl was right

D

DarkPoseidon6

Registered
I remember a while back when watching Earl talk about the differences of tables, and in particular pocket size and how they played. He remarked about how the facings in the pocket was key to the shot, even more than the pocket size itself. I agree....

I had an example of this happen tonight on the league. On my last game, I shot the 8 ball for a no-brainer win and yet it had a bit of spin on it and hit in the inside of the facing and got rejected and went all the way out of the pocket and scratched in the side.

A number of players from my team said that I hit it too hard. In fact, one player actually said after I told him it was unlucky and due to the pocket "it wasn't luck, you didn't hit the center of the pocket". Some interesting things happened after that.

After I lost to that, the player that told me "it wasn't luck" the very next game, his opponent made the 8 on the break. I thought that was ironic.

To follow, about 5 times (including players from our team that said to hit softer) had soft-shot object balls rattle around in the pockets due to bad facings and spin on the ball. Some of those shots cost our players to lose, and by the time I had to get out of there due to bad weather, we were behind by at least a few.....

They never learn, no matter how many years....:wink:....
 
hotelyorba

hotelyorba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DarkPoseidon6 said:
one player actually said after I told him it was unlucky and due to the pocket "it wasn't luck, you didn't hit the center of the pocket".
Click to expand...
I agree with that player, it had nothing to do with luck. You were just not precise enough with your shot, maybe took it for granted and perhaps shot it too hard too. If you do that, then you effectively leave it up to the pool gods if the ball will drop or not.

Seems to me that you're trying to find an external cause for your missed shot. You want to blame it on the pocket facings and try to use Earl's statement as backing for that. Fact is: it was all you.
 
D

DarkPoseidon6

Registered
hotelyorba said:
I agree with that player, it had nothing to do with luck. You were just not precise enough with your shot, maybe took it for granted and perhaps shot it too hard too. If you do that, then you effectively leave it up to the pool gods if the ball will drop or not.

Seems to me that you're trying to find an external cause for your missed shot. You want to blame it on the pocket facings and try to use Earl's statement as backing for that. Fact is: it was all you.
Click to expand...

No, you are right - I should have made it in the middle of the pocket, like every pool player does.
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OP:

What brand and size table was it?

BTW, if all object balls had to hit the heart of the pocket to be accepted, well...lol....even the biggest killers wouldn't be able to run even the simplest layouts.

Jeff
 
BC21

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
The facings should be a certain hardness, I think around 50 or 60 durometer hardness, anywhere from 50 to 70 is typical. Less than that and they become too bouncy, too responsive. More than that and they become less responsive with a dead sounding thud.
 
Dimeball

Dimeball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DarkPoseidon6 said:
I remember a while back when watching Earl talk about the differences of tables, and in particular pocket size and how they played. He remarked about how the facings in the pocket was key to the shot, even more than the pocket size itself. I agree....

I had an example of this happen tonight on the league. On my last game, I shot the 8 ball for a no-brainer win and yet it had a bit of spin on it and hit in the inside of the facing and got rejected and went all the way out of the pocket and scratched in the side.

A number of players from my team said that I hit it too hard. In fact, one player actually said after I told him it was unlucky and due to the pocket "it wasn't luck, you didn't hit the center of the pocket". Some interesting things happened after that.

After I lost to that, the player that told me "it wasn't luck" the very next game, his opponent made the 8 on the break. I thought that was ironic.

To follow, about 5 times (including players from our team that said to hit softer) had soft-shot object balls rattle around in the pockets due to bad facings and spin on the ball. Some of those shots cost our players to lose, and by the time I had to get out of there due to bad weather, we were behind by at least a few.....

They never learn, no matter how many years....:wink:....
Click to expand...
Following up to Earl's comment... I don't believe he providing an excuse or even complaining on that subject. I believe he is merely calling to awareness all of the different things a player must keep in focus to play at a high level, especially someone who travels a lot and plays on different equipment regularly, and, who has just a short while to figure everything out and most importantly retain that knowledge under pressure.

The local guys who consistently play on the same table take things, small things, like for granted as it becomes so part of unconscious play, of course until all of a sudden it bites back and they are left wondering what happened.
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dimeball said:
Following up to Earl's comment... I don't believe he providing an excuse or even complaining on that subject. I believe he is merely calling to awareness all of the different things a player must keep in focus to play at a high level, especially someone who travels a lot and plays on different equipment regularly, and, who has just a short while to figure everything out and most importantly retain that knowledge under pressure.

The local guys who consistently play on the same table take things, small things, like for granted as it becomes so part of unconscious play, of course until all of a sudden it bites back and they are left wondering what happened.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you said but, most rooms today have similar equipment compared to others.

Most all rooms within two or three hours of my house ( many, many rooms ) have diamond tables. Yes, one room's diamonds plays a little different than the next but, it's usually so close that it doesn't matter to anyone that can play at a very consistent level.

Now, years ago, OMG...you never knew what to expect from table to table in pretty much any room...don't even want to think about from room to room....it was like night and day then.

Now days, going from one room to another is usually a different in how well they maintain the room conditions, not the tables so much.

Jeff
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Without a pic of the offending pocket, all our comments are just speculation.

That said, there certainly can be a wide variation of pocket shapes, especially in bar boxes, older tables and and any table that has had work on its cushions.

When getting onto an unfamiliar table, it is ALWAYS a good idea to take a peek at the facings. You'll often note concave or convex profiles. Obviously, balls striking there will not react as one would expect.
 
strmanglr scott

strmanglr scott

All about Focus
Silver Member
If you went to put the 8 in a corner and it rattled out and went in the side, that shot was hit too hard imo.
 
C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DarkPoseidon6 said:
I remember a while back when watching Earl talk about the differences of tables, and in particular pocket size and how they played. He remarked about how the facings in the pocket was key to the shot, even more than the pocket size itself. I agree....

I had an example of this happen tonight on the league. On my last game, I shot the 8 ball for a no-brainer win and yet it had a bit of spin on it and hit in the inside of the facing and got rejected and went all the way out of the pocket and scratched in the side.

A number of players from my team said that I hit it too hard. In fact, one player actually said after I told him it was unlucky and due to the pocket "it wasn't luck, you didn't hit the center of the pocket". Some interesting things happened after that.

After I lost to that, the player that told me "it wasn't luck" the very next game, his opponent made the 8 on the break. I thought that was ironic.

To follow, about 5 times (including players from our team that said to hit softer) had soft-shot object balls rattle around in the pockets due to bad facings and spin on the ball. Some of those shots cost our players to lose, and by the time I had to get out of there due to bad weather, we were behind by at least a few.....

They never learn, no matter how many years....:wink:....
Click to expand...
It’s not the facing itself – it’s the angle of the pocket facing which Dr. Dave refers to as the pocket facing angle. Some of the very toughest playing pockets might measure 5 inches or even 5-1/4 inches across at the mouth, but taper back to 3-3/4 inches at the very back of the facing. Regardless of the pocket mouth measurement, anytime a pocket facing angle, as measured with a protractor, exceeds 143°, the pockets will play extremely tough, particularly shots down the rails and on harder paced shots.
 
Maniac

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
strmanglr scott said:
If you went to put the 8 in a corner and it rattled out and went in the side, that shot was hit too hard imo.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree....

OP stated he shot the 8-ball for a "no-brainer win". Sounds to me like it was an easy, straight or nearly straight-in shot. No reason to shoot one hard enough to rattle the pocket (thus decreasing cue ball speed) AND scratch in the side pocket.

Surely the OP learned a valuable lesson from this one shot.

That said, I remember seeing a well-known (can't remember who though) professional player sink a 9-ball one time and his cue ball went two rails down-table and scratched in a lower corner pocket. :embarrassed2:

Maniac
 
ctyhntr

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
As 3 time US Open 9-Ball champion, Earl may know a thing or two about pool. Too many people focus and make fun of his disabilities and obsessions, and discount he's an accomplished pool player with over 40 years of experience.
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
ctyhntr said:
As 3 time US Open 9-Ball champion, Earl may know a thing or two about pool. Too many people focus and make fun of his disabilities and obsessions, and discount he's an accomplished pool player with over 40 years of experience.
Click to expand...

Is Earl disabled??? He certainly has impressive respect for the game of pool.
 
Andrew Manning

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
Funny how people on here have a fully formed opinion on whether the OP was at fault or whether he was robbed by a bad pocket, without having seen the shot or the pocket. :rolleyes:

OP, did the 8 hit the facing directly, or did it touch the other rail on the way in? If it did hit the facing directly, did it contact the facing out near the point, or deeper in toward the pocket?

If it hit the facing without hitting a rail first, and contacted it well inside the point, you got robbed by a bad pocket. Otherwise, you didn't hit it well enough. Even if you did get robbed by a bad pocket, let it be a lesson to take note of the quirks of the equipment you're on next time when considering how hard you can play a given shot.
 
T

Taxi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
I agree with everything you said but, most rooms today have similar equipment compared to others.

Most all rooms within two or three hours of my house ( many, many rooms ) have diamond tables. Yes, one room's diamonds plays a little different than the next but, it's usually so close that it doesn't matter to anyone that can play at a very consistent level.

Now, years ago, OMG...you never knew what to expect from table to table in pretty much any room...don't even want to think about from room to room....it was like night and day then.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Tell me about it. When I started playing around DC BITD (late 60's), you'd find Brunswick Gold Crown I's, Brunswick Gold Crown II's, solid wood two ton Brunswicks from the 1920's, Gandy, National, Olshausen and / or Victor, depending on where you were. And even within each room, some tables were maintained, others weren't, some had shimmed pockets, others didn't, etc. Virtually no two tables played alike.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Taxi said:
Tell me about it. When I started playing around DC BITD (late 60's), you'd find Brunswick Gold Crown I's, Brunswick Gold Crown II's, solid wood two ton Brunswicks from the 1920's, Gandy, National, Olshausen and / or Victor, depending on where you were. And even within each room, some tables were maintained, others weren't, some had shimmed pockets, others didn't, etc. Virtually no two tables played alike.
Click to expand...

In Arlington- a couple decades later- we had a sweet gold crown with varying pocket sizes and cuts. One of the head corners was a real terror.

Saw many a visitor scratch his head after a rejection.

Good times!
 
Rico

Rico

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Seen Earl accuse the facings of moving and making noise while he was shooting. That stair of his !
 
jviss

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Taxi said:
Tell me about it. When I started playing around DC BITD (late 60's), you'd find Brunswick Gold Crown I's, Brunswick Gold Crown II's, solid wood two ton Brunswicks from the 1920's, Gandy, National, Olshausen and / or Victor, depending on where you were. And even within each room, some tables were maintained, others weren't, some had shimmed pockets, others didn't, etc. Virtually no two tables played alike.
Click to expand...

nit: Gold Crown II came out in 1974, not late '60's. But for color, it was the same as a GC I.
 
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