AzBilliards.com How level is "level" for pool tables?
 Page 4 of 13 « First < 234 56 > Last »
 (#46) smashmouth AzB Silver Member   Status: Offline Posts: 2,767 vCash: 500 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Jan 2006 06-03-2019, 03:45 PM there is a very recent bbc video featuring the table mechanics who set up the world snooker championship tables worth searching for my memory could be off but I believe they suggested a tolerance less that the thickness of a sheet of paper proven via an engineer's level

(#47)
sbpoolleague
World's #1 League Website

Status: Offline
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Santa Barbara

06-03-2019, 03:48 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jviss Thanks for your reply. I think this is the first one that articulates a specification for level for the table, which you state, if I interpret it correctly, is 0,01º. If my trig serves me well, that's 0.002"/ft., which I think is too strict; it's less than the sensitivity of the machinist's level the pros use, which is 0.005"/ft. So, maybe you are off my a decimal point? A spec of 0.1º would be 0.021"/ft., which seems more reasonable to me, and corresponds to what I read in the Brunswick Gold Crown I 1961 service manual. )The Starrett model 98, 8", 0.005"/ft. level goes for about \$150, new.)
You are right, I was off by a decimal point.

The WPA specs say "overall flatness within + .020 inches [.508 mm] lengthwise and + .010 inches [.254 mm] across the width"

Width of a regulation table is 54".
That makes the tolerance angle = arctan(0.1" / 54") = arctan(0.001852) = 0.106 degrees.

Still, the engineering levels are good enough but the regular store-bought levels are not.

(#48)
sbpoolleague
World's #1 League Website

Status: Offline
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Santa Barbara

06-03-2019, 03:54 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jviss How did you come up with this? You are confusing the specification for flatness of the slate with level of the playing surface.
Maybe I am confusing flatness with level here. But in the end, once you have a good slate, it's the level that you are worried about.

How did I come up with that? The online specs for the 12" level state 0.005". Since a regulation table is 4.5 times the width of the level, simply multiply 0.005" by 4.5 to get 0.0225".

(#49)
sbpoolleague
World's #1 League Website

Status: Offline
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Santa Barbara

06-03-2019, 03:56 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by garczar And you're worried about WPA specs???? Please. Every top mechanic i've ever seen uses 12" machinists levels. Mark Gregory sometimes uses six at a time.
You are right. Machinists levels are fine. I thought they were, and when I did my math and it showed they weren't, I was confused. I was off by a decimal point.

That doesn't detract from my main point in that an inexpensive store-bought level is never good enough to level a table.

(#50)
spktur
AzB Silver Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 1,763
vCash: 500
Join Date: Mar 2005

06-03-2019, 03:57 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by sbpoolleague You are right, I was off by a decimal point. The WPA specs say "overall flatness within + .020 inches [.508 mm] lengthwise and + .010 inches [.254 mm] across the width" Width of a regulation table is 54". That makes the tolerance angle = arctan(0.1" / 54") = arctan(0.001852) = 0.106 degrees. Still, the engineering levels are good enough but the regular store-bought levels are not.
The correct dimension of the playing surface of a regulation 9 foot table is 50" x 100". Anything outside this would be under the rail.

 (#51) 9 Ball Fan Darth Maximus     Status: Offline Posts: 269 vCash: 500 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: May 2019 06-03-2019, 04:09 PM This is a surprisingly good thread. Very informative, vigorous discussion. I'm almost surprised no one has tried to dump on the thread yet... Great topic!!!
(#52)
jviss
AzB Silver Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
Join Date: Jan 2019

06-03-2019, 04:15 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by 9 Ball Fan This is a surprisingly good thread. Very informative, vigorous discussion. I'm almost surprised no one has tried to dump on the thread yet... Great topic!!!
Yes, thank goodness.

So, we've had a level discussion, but not much on a spec for the level of a table. I'm surprised this didn't appear in the WPA equipment standards, which are internationalized.

I am getting the impression that when pros set up tables using the right tools they get them well within the range that is undetectable while playing.

 (#53) Rubik's Cube Pool ball collector.     Status: Offline Posts: 765 vCash: 500 iTrader: 1 / 100% Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: England. 06-03-2019, 04:21 PM Good evening, everyone. The best method for me is to use a laser level. I place five steel measuring rules on the baize, one at each corner pocket and one in the centre of the table. I like the way this then allows tiny adjustments to be made until all five laser beams give an identical reading. Best wishes, RC.
 use something like this
 (#54) zencues.com Love to Win Hate to Lose     Status: Offline Posts: 340 vCash: 500 iTrader: 26 / 100% Join Date: Nov 2009 use something like this - 06-03-2019, 04:22 PM use something like this, get close, be happy, learn to play the roll https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...1T8/ezvid02-20
(#55)
ThinSlice
AzB Silver Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 333
vCash: 500
Join Date: Oct 2018

06-03-2019, 04:35 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by sbpoolleague That makes no sense whatsoever. So you cherried out the level on the naked table...then what? You have to lift the slate out, install the felt, then put the slate back, then re-level the table because you moved the slate.

Why would you have to lift the slate out? What type of table are you referring to that you would have to lift the slate out?

Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

 (#56) poolhustler AzB Silver Member     Status: Offline Posts: 9,620 vCash: 3500 iTrader: 167 / 100% Join Date: May 2007 06-03-2019, 04:37 PM I just do construction, so I deal with 1/8" per foot in 10 ft and 1/4" per foot so shit rolls downhill... the table levelling stuff... I leave that to the pro's "Then again...you may be the Antichrist"
(#57)
9 Ball Fan
Darth Maximus

Status: Offline
Posts: 269
vCash: 500
Join Date: May 2019

06-03-2019, 04:37 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ThinSlice Why would you have to lift the slate out? What type of table are you referring to that you would have to lift the slate out? Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

He probably means a coin op, barbox table?

(#58)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day

Status: Offline
Posts: 19,539
vCash: 1700
Join Date: Jun 2007

06-03-2019, 04:38 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by sbpoolleague You are right, I was off by a decimal point. The WPA specs say "overall flatness within + .020 inches [.508 mm] lengthwise and + .010 inches [.254 mm] across the width" Width of a regulation table is 54". That makes the tolerance angle = arctan(0.1" / 54") = arctan(0.001852) = 0.106 degrees. Still, the engineering levels are good enough but the regular store-bought levels are not.
Isn't there a mismatch there (in red) - making the angle 0.0106 degrees?

pj
chgo

(#59)
ThinSlice
AzB Silver Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 333
vCash: 500
Join Date: Oct 2018

06-03-2019, 04:38 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by sbpoolleague On a 7' table you do.

Never seen a table you have to lift the slate out of and if that would be the case then it’s probably not a table you would be overly concerned about thousands of an inch leveling. Love a picture of that 7’.

Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

(#60)
jviss
AzB Silver Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
Join Date: Jan 2019

06-03-2019, 04:41 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by zencues.com use something like this, get close, be happy, learn to play the roll https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...1T8/ezvid02-20
There may come a day when these inexpensive electronic levels are sensitive enough for this job, but I don't think we're there yet. For a digital display I think you'd need to resolve thousandths of an inch per foot. These are typically hundredths.

 Page 4 of 13 « First < 234 56 > Last »

 Thread Tools Rate This Thread Rate This Thread: 5 : Excellent 4 : Good 3 : Average 2 : Bad 1 : Terrible

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Forum Rules
 Forum Jump User Control Panel Private Messages Subscriptions Who's Online Search Forums Forums Home Main Category     Main Forum     Live Stream Area     Wanted/For Sale         For Sale Items         eBay Auctions         Wanted     Room Owner Discussion     14.1 Pool     Canadian Pool     Snooker     Carom Billiards     Memories of Steve Mizerak     English Pool     Billiard and Pool History in the U.S.     BEF Juniors Pool     Non Pool Related     Test Area     Cuesports: Rules & Strategies     AzB Hall of Fame     Pool Room Reviews Tournament Talk     U.S. Tournament Announcements     European Tournament Annoucements     Asian Tournament Announcements     Super Billiards Expo     Junior National 9-Ball Championships     World Championships     US Open Championships     Derby City Classic/Southern Classic     BCAPL 8-Ball Championship     US Bar Table Championship     WPBA     Matchroom Events     Eurotour     Other Tours & Events Products Talk     Pool Tables and Accessories Reviews     Cue Reviews     Cue and shaft reviews     Cue Case Reviews     Cue Machinery and Supplies     Cue & Case Gallery     Ask The Cuemaker     Cue Accessory reviews     Other Item reviews     Talk To A Mechanic Instruction & Ask the pros     Aiming Conversation     George 'Ginky' San Souci     Instructional Material reviews     Instructor Reviews     Melissa Morris     Sarah Rousey     Ask The Instructor