Challenge of Champions dump

naji...You have NO idea what you're talking about. This tournament was in 1991, and Buddy was at the top of his game...as he had been for many years, and had won any number of tournaments in the 80's and 90's. For a few years, 30 years ago, he was the top money-winner on the pro tour.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

naji said:

Buddy at the time was not as good as he is now,.

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PINKLADY said:

at Mosconi, Buddy was >400lbs and rode a red Hoveround everywhere he went. i can't imagine him playing now, much less standing for a period of time. has he lost weight?

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No, he has not lost weight and isn't in very good mental shape either. Last Wed he played Skyler a race to 7 of full rack banks for a good piece of change. It took about 6 hrs and went hill/hill. Even though buddy made a great comeback from down 3-5 to tie the set and then get it to the hill, towards the end he just couldn't finish like he used to even a few years back. I could go into it deeper but i won't. Lets just say its painful even watching him play these days.
On a side note if anybody can get down to Paducah next Wed. Skyler and Eddie Moore are going to finally going to get it on! They already froze up quite a bit so its happening. This should be very entertaining to watch! This is Banks of course. My money is on Eddie even though he doesn't play any more.
.

I've read all this. Listened over the years about it. Discussed it with players that were in the know,,and even they weren't sure,,,but CJ said it best back at the beggining of this thread
Sometimes Ya Gotta Shoot On The Right Shake.....Yep...

The Fix is in......:/

Almost without fail, at every event that has a calcutta, betting line or just side betting there will be those that feel cheated when a player doesn't perform the way they expected them to.

I have seen these guys cry to everybody that will listen about how the fix was in and it cost them.

Jay posted in an earlier thread on this subject that the bets were capped and wouldn't amount to a hill of beans unless there was a a major coordination by numerous players and rail birds. Has anyone every tried to get several pool players on the same page on something? Forget it.

Ray

Bigtruck said:

Jay posted in an earlier thread on this subject that the bets were capped and wouldn't amount to a hill of beans unless there was a a major coordination by numerous players and rail birds. Has anyone every tried to get several pool players on the same page on something?It was "winner take all", use common sense. There's no way that 7 guys were taking a chance on getting nothing. Forget it.

Ray

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Actually, here's what Jay wrote:

jay helfert said:

1991 at the Mirage Hotel. It was the first Challenge of Champions and I was the TD and ref for all the matches. Yes, the finals between Buddy and Mike looked a little funny at times, but there was nothing I could do except watch and wonder about it. Everyone knew Mike went off at 20-1. I had told some people that it was a bad line for a player like Mike in a short race format like this. I knew anyone could win it, they were all great players. Afterward I found out that seven of the eight players had made a deal.

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jay helfert said:

The maximum bet was $200 and the players could not buy tickets. That did not stop them from sending someone else to the window for them. Each winning $200 ticket paid $4200 and I think there were only eleven sold on Lebron before they changed the line to 9-1. The Mirage took a hit for 40K but when I discussed it with the head of the Sports Book, he laughed it off, saying it was small bananas. But they never made a line again in subsequent Challenges held there in future years.

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ONB

John Novak said:

CJ I got all the respect for you in the world, but this 8 ball was a clear dump shot on buddys part........Also the odds that Lebron would win was 20:1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y12sL1oR2s watch at 40 seconds and the shot at 6:36 Buddy can make that with his eyes closed.........they all got rich that weekend.....

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Why would you write that when Buddy ended up winning that game? That was game 16 and made it 8-8.

I think he probably wanted to scratch in the side on the 7 ball shot. After LeBron missed the 8 and left it parked in front of the side pocket Hall had no choice but to win the game.

It's the 8/9 combo in game 17 that gives it away.

ONB

crabbcatjohn said:

No, he has not lost weight and isn't in very good mental shape either. Last Wed he played Skyler a race to 7 of full rack banks for a good piece of change. It took about 6 hrs and went hill/hill. Even though buddy made a great comeback from down 3-5 to tie the set and then get it to the hill, towards the end he just couldn't finish like he used to even a few years back. I could go into it deeper but i won't. Lets just say its painful even watching him play these days.
On a side note if anybody can get down to Paducah next Wed. Skyler and Eddie Moore are going to finally going to get it on! They already froze up quite a bit so its happening. This should be very entertaining to watch! This is Banks of course. My money is on Eddie even though he doesn't play any more.
.

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thanks for the update. it's good to hear that he's at least playing, since he doesn't read/post on AZB. pool can be very therapeutic, in our times of need.

but Love is Love, and Business is Business - i have my own opinion from talking w/ him @ Mosconi & the donations made & how things were handled.

sorry for the temp derail!

PINKLADY said:

thanks for the update. it's good to hear that he's at least playing, since he doesn't read/post on AZB. pool can be very therapeutic, in our times of need.

but Love is Love, and Business is Business - i have my own opinion from talking w/ him @ Mosconi & the donations made & how things were handled.

sorry for the temp derail!

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Its all he has.

Old Nine Baller said:

Actually, here's what Jay wrote:
ONB

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CJ says they bet again after this. Jay says they never bet again. blah blah blah (no offense blah blah)

Does anyone have any thoughts on what could change pool for the better? That would be too much work.

Personally I love the game, I love the eclectic group that makes up the game. I have no love for people that latch on to every negative word they hear and wanna shout it from the roof tops.....and for what? Personal entertainment?

There is probably 1000 positive things that have happened with pool players involved. Where are those threads? Oh yeah....buried with 4 or 5 responses.

How bout diggin up some of those threads???

Ray

JoeyA said:

I hear ya. Game fixing is a pox on pool but I can tell you from personal experience that some people perceive things that are not as they truly are. Some people can't wait to spread some dirty gossip and others can't wait to tell the tale to the next person and so the story grows. Just sayin....

Anyway, I have seen myself play great one match and then play terrible the next match. It happens to most people who compete at one time or another. If you would have seen Shannon Daulton when I beat him playing one pocket, you might have thought something was up. (There wasn't) Sometimes even professional players look like amateurs.

JoeyA

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Didn't he come back and beat Buddy in the finals of that tournament? I know he played Efren in the semi's and put on a banking clinic. I think he won 11 matches in a row.

Bigtruck said:

CJ says they bet again after this. Jay says they never bet again. blah blah blah (no offense blah blah)

Does anyone have any thoughts on what could change pool for the better? That would be too much work.

Personally I love the game, I love the eclectic group that makes up the game. I have no love for people that latch on to every negative word they hear and wanna shout it from the roof tops.....and for what? Personal entertainment?

There is probably 1000 positive things that have happened with pool players involved. Where are those threads? Oh yeah....buried with 4 or 5 responses.

How bout diggin up some of those threads???

Ray

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If Buddy did do this, you would think some here act like it's worse than murder. If this was the only bad thing Buddy did in his pool career, I will overlook it, since the casino was the only one that got beat. Buddy is a great guy and doesn't deserve this beating over and over.

Thanks for for the post, Old Nine Baller:

Actually, here's what Jay wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay helfert

"1991 at the Mirage Hotel. It was the first Challenge of Champions and I was the TD and ref for all the matches. Yes, the finals between Buddy and Mike looked a little funny at times, but there was nothing I could do except watch and wonder about it. Everyone knew Mike went off at 20-1. I had told some people that it was a bad line for a player like Mike in a short race format like this. I knew anyone could win it, they were all great players. Afterward I found out that seven of the eight players had made a deal."

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay helfert

"The maximum bet was $200 and the players could not buy tickets. That did not stop them from sending someone else to the window for them. Each winning $200 ticket paid $4200 and I think there were only eleven sold on Lebron before they changed the line to 9-1. The Mirage took a hit for 40K but when I discussed it with the head of the Sports Book, he laughed it off, saying it was small bananas. But they never made a line again in subsequent Challenges held there in future years."



Thanks it doesn't make any sense to try and cover up things that happened.
I do understand however why some doth protest to much, and want to keep
some things from the past, in the past.

Have a nice day !

backplaying said:

If Buddy did do this, you would think some here act like it's worse than murder. If this was the only bad thing Buddy did in his pool career, I will overlook it, since the casino was the only one that got beat. Buddy is a great guy and doesn't deserve this beating over and over.

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What about the people that bet on Buddy?

backplaying said:

Didn't he come back and beat Buddy in the finals of that tournament? I know he played Efren in the semi's and put on a banking clinic. I think he won 11 matches in a row.

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Shannon came back and beat EVERY player and won the tournament. I caught him off guard. This was a pretty large one pocket tournament and Shannon did beat 10 or 11 players in a row after losing to me. I know how to inspire a champion.

JoeyA

All I know is that's the ugliest pool table I've ever seen. My eyes hurt.

Old Nine Baller,
I agree you should read what ever you want and post what you want,
it's laughable that someone would try to tell you different.

DUMP!

hideous pool table

an embarrassment to pool and all pool players

....but watching that match and the semi finals match gives me renewed hope,if the 2 players in the semi finals can get there then I can be a world champion myself LOL.

Scott Lee said:

naji...You have NO idea what you're talking about. This tournament was in 1991, and Buddy was at the top of his game...as he had been for many years, and had won any number of tournaments in the 80's and 90's. For a few years, 30 years ago, he was the top money-winner on the pro tour.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

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No doubt he was fierce competitor and among the top, but,
back then 1990 or 1991, the pool knowledge was not well understood as today's. Not only Buddy, the skill of most pros back in the 90s is not as good as today's skillful players especially when applying english. So comparatively speaking his knowledge of pool today is way more than back then, thanks to Youtube, AZB, and maybe better equipment, (not saying his level of play, only his knowledge, he probably does not practice as much nowadays)

Maybe i am not good source for this info, i kindly ask CJ to shed some light on this topic

backplaying said:

If Buddy did do this, you would think some here act like it's worse than murder. If this was the only bad thing Buddy did in his pool career, I will overlook it, since the casino was the only one that got beat. Buddy is a great guy and doesn't deserve this beating over and over.

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Really???????? Really????????????????????? The casino took a small loss and pool has been in gutter ever since.... So who really lost here? I will give you a quote but you have to say it slow and with a KY accent... We taught them fellas not to bet on professional pool..... Snooker thrives because you can bet it up... If you don't understand the ramifications.. NM....