Opinions on this situation please....

Ron F · Apr 19, 2011

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If the WPA rules state that if the edge of the 15th ball eclipses the outline of the rack (but not the racked ball area) then the ball is in the rack then that's good enough for me. I wonder why the BCA rules are silent on this situation?

“If the 15th (un-pocketed) ball of a rack and/or the cue ball interferes with the triangle being lowered straight down into position for racking”…(then the ball is considered to be in the rack).

If the triangle is lowered straight down, then the outline of the rack falls outside the rack because that’s where it was drawn– meaning the 15th ball is outside the rack as well.

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_141.shtml

My feelings mirrored those of Paul Dayton’s above – in that it is not the outline of the rack, but the inner edge of the line that determines whether a ball is in the rack or not.

A different approach that may eliminate some confusion is to get a ball from a different set and use it as a head ball making sure it is centered on the foot spot while racking. If the BB interferes with the rack in this situation then it is in. The additional ball would of course then be removed after the balls are racked. Thoughts on that?

Ron F

Demondrew · Apr 19, 2011

I have a problem on an unmarked table being sure the rack in in the right place. I use a spare cue ball at the head of the rack to ensure proper placement of the racked balls. Removing the spare cue ball after the rack is removed.

Andy

3andstop · Apr 19, 2011

Williebetmore said:
I'm with you and Bob Jewett. If the ball is touching the line it is IN THE RACK. I've played with a lot of old-schoolers; and all to my knowledge agree.

I was surprised anyone played it as out of the rack....not traditional.

Yeah, when my buddy and I disagreed on this, I was really surprised, since for all the years I've played the line drawn simply simulates the rack.

There is the line, that is the rack's image imprinted on the table. Sure it's outside the actual rack (the actual rack of the rack used at the time the line was drawn BTW) but never the less it is there to simulate the rack.

It just seemed so self explanatory. On the other hand, after reading the others opinions, I can understand how they interpret it differently.

Taking this one step farther, as I mentioned earlier, suppose you had to change racks for whatever reason and the new rack is slightly different from the one used to draw the line.

Now what, if it were a permanent line drawn, change the cloth?

In my opinion, during the course of your game, regardless of the size of the physical new rack, it should remain that the drawn line on the table is the line to be used to simulate the rack's image. But that may be yet another debate. :thumbup:

14-1StraightMan · Apr 19, 2011

Good Comment

3andstop said:
Yeah, when my buddy and I disagreed on this, I was really surprised, since for all the years I've played the line drawn simply simulates the rack.

There is the line, that is the rack's image imprinted on the table. Sure it's outside the actual rack (the actual rack of the rack used at the time the line was drawn BTW) but never the less it is there to simulate the rack.

It just seemed so self explanatory. On the other hand, after reading the others opinions, I can understand how they interpret it differently.

Taking this one step farther, as I mentioned earlier, suppose you had to change racks for whatever reason and the new rack is slightly different from the one used to draw the line.

Now what, if it were a permanent line drawn, change the cloth?

In my opinion, during the course of your game, regardless of the size of the physical new rack, it should remain that the drawn line on the table is the line to be used to simulate the rack's image. But that may be yet another debate. :thumbup:

You made a very good statement on an earlier comment about that there is no way a line can be drawn under the rack.
As for rack lines on someone's home table. There should never be a problem. I had a good solid wood rack for over 10 yrs and have just got another one just a different color.
If I was playing in a pool room where they took the time to put rack lines on their table, I would think they would have the correct rack to fit.
For players who just think that the rack line is just there to give a player a reference point. Maybe hand racking with one of those dent system would be really good for them.

Bob Jewett · Apr 19, 2011

3andstop said:
.... Taking this one step farther, as I mentioned earlier, suppose you had to change racks for whatever reason and the new rack is slightly different from the one used to draw the line. ...

OK, so the triangle falls apart just as you go to rack, and you switch to a thicker rack. In this case I would say to mark the (semi-) interfering ball, rack the balls with the triangle that's available, and put the break ball back. The player is entitled to know whether a ball is in the rack prior to the end of the rack to allow him to plan the continuation of his run. For the rest of the game, the easiest solution is to continue with the small outline as above, but it would also be reasonable to draw the larger line.

3andstop · Apr 19, 2011

Bob Jewett said:
OK, so the triangle falls apart just as you go to rack, and you switch to a thicker rack. In this case I would say to mark the (semi-) interfering ball, rack the balls with the triangle that's available, and put the break ball back. The player is entitled to know whether a ball is in the rack prior to the end of the rack to allow him to plan the continuation of his run. For the rest of the game, the easiest solution is to continue with the small outline as above, but it would also be reasonable to draw the larger line.

I totally agree! The line is the rack regardless if it falls in or out of the physical rack.

sausage · Apr 20, 2011

bob: i had a lengthy reply and the power went out.... :angry: anyway, after some consideration, i have determined that agreeing on the outline of the rack is probably best because an unscrupulous racker could skew the racking to his advantage. most tables however do not have the rack outlined and hall owners might frown upon doing so. the outline rule might work best with new cloth on professionally groomed tables in a major tournament.

even if we can't fully agree on this nuance, one thing upon which we can all agree is that pool is not an exact science hence the need for refs.

3andstop · Apr 21, 2011

I don't play out in pool rooms anymore, but when I did I always carried one of these with me. Very inexpensive, and wipes off easily.

http://www.weldfabulous.com/Mig-Wel.../Weldcote-Metals-Flat-Soapstone-p6195045.html

Buy a few sticks of soapstone, bevel one side till it comes to a sharp edge and mark the outline of the rack.

Bob Jewett · Apr 21, 2011

3andstop said:
I don't play out in pool rooms anymore, but when I did I always carried one of these with me. Very inexpensive, and wipes off easily.

http://www.weldfabulous.com/Mig-Wel.../Weldcote-Metals-Flat-Soapstone-p6195045.html

Buy a few sticks of soapstone, bevel one side till it comes to a sharp edge and mark the outline of the rack.

Or, go where the quilting ladies go and get yourself a "Dritz Quilting Soapstone Marking Pencil" or similar. I use a mechanical one that uses 2-mm "leads" that come in an amazing variety of colors including white.

Kruiz89 · Apr 22, 2011

SpiderWebComm said:
The line is outside of the rack--- I agree. The line is on the table for visual "convenience" so you can tell what's in/out. If the 15th ball interferes with properly racking the ball, it's in. Otherwise, it's out.

So, if you push the rack up and the 15th ball doesn't move--- it's out--- regardless where the line is.

100% agreement

Opinions on this situation please....

Ron F

Ron F

Demondrew

AzB Silver Member

3andstop

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14-1StraightMan

High Run 127

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member

3andstop

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sausage

Banned

3andstop

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Bob Jewett

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Kruiz89

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