Louie Roberts Award and J. Lee

Johnnyt said:

I doubt Jeanette Lee would want the kind of publicity that the Louie Roberts Award would bring, but she should be considered for it. She played for more money than anyone there and was in action every day/night/morning. As far as woofing and barking goes, I always thought it childless. Most are just playing to the crowd to say, "Hey look at me, I gamble when I have the nuts". I say, state your game, the other guy either takes that game or makes a counter offer. If you don't like the game then just move on to the next guy you want to gamble with. I would hope in this day and age people won't consider her because she's a woman. Johnnyt

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Jeanette would be a good candidate. I also like Harry Platis for this. He got down nearly every day pretty well, too. John Mars was behind a boatload of action.

Johnnyt said:

I doubt Jeanette Lee would want the kind of publicity that the Louie Roberts Award would bring, but she should be considered for it. She played for more money than anyone there and was in action every day/night/morning. As far as woofing and barking goes, I always thought it childless. Most are just playing to the crowd to say, "Hey look at me, I gamble when I have the nuts". I say, state your game, the other guy either takes that game or makes a counter offer. If you don't like the game then just move on to the next guy you want to gamble with. I would hope in this day and age people won't consider her because she's a woman. Johnnyt

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JT:

Well, you certainly can't apply that statement to Jeanette, for she is certainly not "childless" -- she has kids.

But yes, I do agree with the spirit of what you meant -- some of that woofing/barking is really childish. I watched that TAR YouTube video of Scooter barking at Shane Van Boening, and while funny in some places, I was shaking my head at what Scooter was doing, trying to bulldog and belittle Shane into relenting. He wanted to play Shane for big bucks, but he also wanted the world as a spot. I ask, "if Scooter ends up winning, what in the f*** does that prove?? So? He'd defeated Shane, but needed an outlandish spot to do it??" But I digress...

And yes, the fact that Jeanette is a woman should NEVER (ever!) have any place in her consideration for the Louis Roberts action award. She was in there with the men, mixing it up BIG TIME, and deserves consideration (and just plain deserves *it*, IMHO).

-Sean

sfleinen said:

JT:

Well, you certainly can't apply that statement to Jeanette, for she is certainly not "childless" -- she has kids.

But yes, I do agree with the spirit of what you meant -- some of that woofing/barking is really childish. I watched that TAR YouTube video of Scooter barking at Shane Van Boening, and while funny in some places, I was shaking my head at what Scooter was doing, trying to bulldog and belittle Shane into relenting. He wanted to play Shane for big bucks, but he also wanted the world as a spot. I ask, "if Scooter ends up winning, what in the f*** does that prove?? So? He'd defeated Shane, but needed an outlandish spot to do it??" But I digress...

And yes, the fact that Jeanette is a woman should NEVER (ever!) have any place in her consideration for the Louis Roberts action award. She was in there with the men, mixing it up BIG TIME, and deserves consideration (and just plain deserves *it*, IMHO).

-Sean

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Good post Sean as per normal. As childish as it seems sometimes it would be cool to witness and pick up a few tips. I for one have not been in action for a long time but still woof now and then. Last week I was challenging a couple of young guys in 8 ball, I was to play one handed and they got to choose my last pocket. They were to play with both hands and had any pocket for the 8 and they turned it down. This was a ridiculous spot and I would surely have gotten beat but I must have woofed to hard because they turned me down.

If you read the posts about the derby along with the stream etc. then a few things come to mind with the action award.

1) Shouldn't you (the player) be an integral part of making the game, the spot, the wager?
2) Shouldn't some of the action you play be even or at the very least not a hijacking spot?
3) Should any or all of the cash be your own, not the formation of a group of people who all put you in the game?

To a lot of people SA made the games and just rang the room for someone to come down and play them (other parties included)

Also what about etiquette when agreeing to play a game at a certain time, finish a game which was started, or being on time to play a game.

u12armresl said:

If you read the posts about the derby along with the stream etc. then a few things come to mind with the action award.

1) Shouldn't you (the player) be an integral part of making the game, the spot, the wager?
2) Shouldn't some of the action you play be even or at the very least not a hijacking spot?
3) Should any or all of the cash be your own, not the formation of a group of people who all put you in the game?

To a lot of people SA made the games and just rang the room for someone to come down and play them (other parties included)

Also what about etiquette when agreeing to play a game at a certain time, finish a game which was started, or being on time to play a game.

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Not everyone is good at negotiating match play, and most often the match is won/lost before the balls are broken, I think this was a very good/creative move on JL's part. I find this behavior no different than an owner hiring sales people to do his work and very rarely does the owner get involved if ever. Remember, the owner used to do this when he first started, but now operates at a different level and has found this approach more effective and good for busine$$. JL's been around the horn a few times.
Negotiating/selling a match up has no borders no fixed rules of conduct and never will, maybe there is a perfect world...........somewhere.

Jeanette was involved in the game making process from beginning to end, she bet her own dough and lots of it, she covered all the rail action that came to her and she played most of her games even or with some small weight. And she played multiple sets night after night, not just one set a night. Plus she played with several different individuals at different games on different tables. I think she would play on the floor if the bet was right. She's got my vote!

AND she still found time for her family and to spend time at her booth visiting with fans! Talk about multi tasking. The funniest thing all week was when Jeanette was in action upstairs and two beefy security guards looked in the room. I was standing right by the door. One of the guards looked at the other one and said, "See, what did I tell you." The other guy looked back at him and responded, "My God, it is her!" Jeanette noticed them and asked me what that was all about. I told her they wanted to see if it was really you in here playing pool for money. Now they have a story to tell their families, they saw Jeanette Lee in action!

sfleinen said:

JT:

Well, you certainly can't apply that statement to Jeanette, for she is certainly not "childless" -- she has kids.

But yes, I do agree with the spirit of what you meant -- some of that woofing/barking is really childish. I watched that TAR YouTube video of Scooter barking at Shane Van Boening, and while funny in some places, I was shaking my head at what Scooter was doing, trying to bulldog and belittle Shane into relenting. He wanted to play Shane for big bucks, but he also wanted the world as a spot. I ask, "if Scooter ends up winning, what in the f*** does that prove?? So? He'd defeated Shane, but needed an outlandish spot to do it??" But I digress...

And yes, the fact that Jeanette is a woman should NEVER (ever!) have any place in her consideration for the Louis Roberts action award. She was in there with the men, mixing it up BIG TIME, and deserves consideration (and just plain deserves *it*, IMHO).

-Sean

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If you watch the Shane interview on TAR he says Scooter lied to him about playing Deuel and getting a spot so he could get the same spot from Shane. If Johnny is correct that the black widow gambled the most then she seems like a logical choice.

u12armresl said:

If you read the posts about the derby along with the stream etc. then a few things come to mind with the action award.

1) Shouldn't you (the player) be an integral part of making the game, the spot, the wager?
2) Shouldn't some of the action you play be even or at the very least not a hijacking spot?
3) Should any or all of the cash be your own, not the formation of a group of people who all put you in the game?

To a lot of people SA made the games and just rang the room for someone to come down and play them (other parties included)

Also what about etiquette when agreeing to play a game at a certain time, finish a game which was started, or being on time to play a game.

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Your comments are duly noted but misplaced. Jeanette was absolutlely integral in every matchup she had. I think some of you are making up the situations without any basis in reality. She also had even matchups and she gave up weight as well.

Additionally, though I don't agree with someone walking out on a set after posting, the DCC this year saw a few endings that raised eyebrows that didn't involve Jeanette.

She deserves to be considered in every aspect.

Fred

jay helfert said:

Jeanette was involved in the game making process from beginning to end, she bet her own dough and lots of it, she covered all the rail action that came to her and she played most of her games even or with some small weight. And she played multiple sets night after night, not just one set a night. Plus she played with several different individuals at different games on different tables. I think she would play on the floor if the bet was right. She's got my vote!

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I agree with Jay!

My buddy and I were down at the DCC from Wednesday afternoon through Saturday evening. Last night on the drive home, I asked him who would be in the running for the Louie this year. We both agreed that Jeanette was in action most every night and should seriously considered for the award. I watched her 2nd set against Larry Price as well as the 8-hour set against Richie Richeson. The set against Richie was brutal for her physically. I could see her starting to favor her back around the 3-4 hour mark and by the time they were in the 7th and 8th hours, she was really fighting the pain. I give her credit for stepping up and playing. I won't get into the details here of the set she quit on Richie the night before, but she came back and played Richie the next night to honor the game she had arranged. Others were in action for more $$ from time to time, but overall, I think JL was in action more often and provided great entertainment.....hence the Action and Entertaiment Award......give it to her!

You will no complaints on the back pain issue. If she is hurting at any time, she should be allowed to pull up and restart. I totally sympathize with this issue.

Jeanette

She should absolutely be considered! Her action was definitely entertaining to me.

Jeanette DEFINITELY gets it! That coming from someone who was SEVERELY injured by her in the AZ room (the butt end of the cue to my left buttocks). She'll need the award to pay for all of the rehab I surely will need for months to come!

u12armresl said:

You will no complaints on the back pain issue. If she is hurting at any time, she should be allowed to pull up and restart. I totally sympathize with this issue.

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WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????:shrug:

u12armresl said:

If you read the posts about the derby along with the stream etc. then a few things come to mind with the action award.

1) Shouldn't you (the player) be an integral part of making the game, the spot, the wager?
2) Shouldn't some of the action you play be even or at the very least not a hijacking spot?
3) Should any or all of the cash be your own, not the formation of a group of people who all put you in the game?

To a lot of people SA made the games and just rang the room for someone to come down and play them (other parties included)

Also what about etiquette when agreeing to play a game at a certain time, finish a game which was started, or being on time to play a game.

Click to expand...

I think you are forgetting the who the this award is named after?

1. Louie Roberts would have partners and backers make games for him as well make his own, with the ones he made often being the worst ones.

2. Louie Roberts would give and get weight depending on the situation.

3. Louie Roberts would play on anyone's money and even hocked his cue to like three people at once to keep playing.


Fred cleared this up but I want to say that Larry Price didn't HAVE to play. He could just as easily have told JL that he would play later, or he could have made a stipulation for a time window to get the match started in. The fact is that JL did show up and they played and she won. And EVERYONE is still talking about it - that's entertainment.

And what did she do? She made a game with Richie Rich right away and they teed off and then she got teed off and they MUTUALLY AGREED to do it the next night. Which they did and she PLAYED for 10 hours.

It's funny, when JL lost to Chris Gentile getting weight no one was on here complaining about a "hijacking spot". When she played Larry Price no one in the building wanted to bet on Jeannette. One guy on AZ even offered to bet 2k on Larry, and I don't think anyone took him up on it.

She played Larry twice, once ending up one game ahead after like six hours. Once winning after four hours. She played Tedder GIVING UP WEIGHT in a set for so much that no one could figure out how much was in action. That set was as exciting as any we have seen with two major swings in it and a dramatic conclusion.

So to me there is no way that she can't in the running here. I don't how it all works exactly but lets not forget that it's the PLAYER who provided the "action and entertainment" in honor of the great Louie Roberts. Louie would play on a corporation's money, he would pull people off the street and play on their money, he would of course play on his own money, but the main thing is that he, the player, was the ACTION and THE ENTERTAINMENT.

In fact, Billy Incardona, while commentating on the JL/Rich match was saying that Richie and a few other players had been in steady small action throughout the week and he didn't see why they didn't form corporations and get some bigger action happening.

Entertainment? What other player besides Efren has generated so many threads this DCC than Jeannette?

Roberts Award Ricky Byrd

Ricky Byrd from Alabama, I saw him play back to back sets of one hole @ 10 dimes each. He lost both, and heard he stayed in action for the remainder of his time there......I dont know Ricky but he got some gamble....

Frankie

It's funny, when JL lost to Chris Gentile getting weight no one was on here complaining about a "hijacking spot". When she played Larry Price no one in the building wanted to bet on Jeannette. One guy on AZ even offered to bet 2k on Larry, and I don't think anyone took him up on it.


Actually there were posts about that, where people thought Larry had been up way too long and was off his game, but he played anyway.

As far as you saying people should form corporations and play on others money etc. What's the loss for the player? (that he doesn't win cash) There's a big difference between having a stakehorse whom you travel with and are up with on everything and someone saying hey we have 6 people who will stake you in a match against someone. And to add to that a lot of players like to put their own money into action so they can get motivated.

If a bunch of people put someone in for a 10k set, is the player really gambling 10k? No loss to them.

I vote for a Ricky Byrd (who mostly uses his cash) and makes the games, no convention needed to figure out if he will play.

Well to me the loss for the player is that if they don't perform they don't get backed anymore. A player with a losing record in the box has no shot of getting backed and so he can't play in the big sets.

I see both sides of it and as one who bets his own 99% of the time I do also favor the player that puts themselves in action. I just don't however discount the pressure and excitement that goes along with players who are playing high stakes matches where a bunch of people are invested heavily in them.

Anyone who says JL is not even supposed to be considered for the Louie Roberts just doesn't really understand pool action in my opinion.

And as someone who has run plenty of booths at these events let me tell you that it's triple tough to try and fade running a business and playing in the event and matching up all at the same time.

Action is all about getting in the grease when all the barking is done. It's not just about the money that was bet, nor about who had the 'toughest' games, it's about who generates action, who draws attention, who does everyone want to play to take a shot at their bankroll.

If it was only about the money then I guarantee you I could show up with 200K and buy myself the Louie Roberts by being in 20-30k sets twice a say. I might win some and lose some but I'd make sure I was betting the most.

This is why I don't think that backers and stakehorses should be in contention for this award. It's the players who play - they are the reason that there is action at all.

Louie Roberts was famous for always wanting to be in action - playing! So to me the award should always go to a player and this year Jeannette Lee really earned her PLAYER card more than any other time I have seen her in action.

She may not win, like Paul Newman was snubbed for an Oscar when he played Fast Eddie in the Hustler. But she damn well deserves to be considered among the top contenders. IMO.

All of this trumped up reasons, since Jeanette actually passed everyone"s silly reasons, now what? She gets to be considered right?

Let's see, to answer the trumped up false reasoning she:

Bet her own money - check
Bet at least 10 dimes of her own (that seems to be the Ricky Byrd number) - check
She gave weight - check
She made games - check

Additionally, any of these silly reasons (which to be very clear have no bearing on who can be considered for the award) would be ridiculous to use as scrutiny for other winners. For example, Chris Bartram. His year wouldn't have passed many of your complaints. Who would deny his merit for the award.?

Bottom line: she was in action and entertaining. She's been in action every year I've seen her at the DCC. EVERY YEAR. The only difference this year was she happened to stand out more from an entertainment perspective. Same as Scooter in his year. Same as Bartram in his year. Same as Cliff in his year...

Fred <~~~ it's a pretty simple concept without any politics