2009 World Ten Ball Champ still unpaid!

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I hesitated to post this thread but it needs to come out, whether from me or someone else. Mika won 60K and hasn't been paid a dime yet! Worse yet, he is getting no communication from the people who owe him the money. There is no response to his e-mails or phone calls. I suspect the same about Lee Van Corteza, and his 30K for second. I will find out for sure tomorrow at Hard Times. This event ended five months ago!

It was sanctioned by the WPA and hopefully they are doing something to help the players who are owed prize money. That I don't know. This event was given wide billing and television coverage all over the Philippines and Asia. If this story of unpaid prize monies comes out in the filipino media it would be a huge embarrassment to the Philippine government, who make such a big deal of events like this being held on their soil. Plus the runner-up Lee Van Corteza is one of their own!

In posting this now, I am hopeful that a ground swell of support for Mika will begin, and he will get all the prize money due to him. I was there and he played his heart out to win. To be the bearer of news like this absolutely sickens me. Let's see what we can do to straighten it out for Mika and the others who remain unpaid. Sometimes I think this forum carries more collective weight than any of pool's governing bodies. We reach everywhere pool is played.

It's time to sweep all the deadbeats out of the game. I'd rather see fewer events than any more non paying events. The same goes for deadbeats in other aspects of the pool industry. If someone works for you, whether it be a TD, referee, reporter, photographer or whatever, then by all means PAY THEM! You know who you are and you're next!
 
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Mike in MN

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What the F is going on lately? This is not an isolated incident. I really hope organized pool hasn't fallen into the hands of the slimy and greedy. It's sad that a man can't even get the paycheck that he earned.
 

SUPERSTAR

I am Keyser Söze
Silver Member
Kill the promoters and whoever else was involved with ripping the players off.
SLAY THEM!!!
 

Mark Griffin

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
payouts

Mark Griffin and CSI (CueSports International) - parent entity of the BCAPL - USAPL - and National Championship Series AGREES 100% with Jay on this one.

The players need to be paid.

Another troublesome situation is when the 'promised' payout is reduced when the event takes place.

It is very important for the information given out before an event is accurate. There is a big difference in added money (based on field size) and Guaranteed Added Money.

The only thing I will say is that every single event that I have done in 42 years of doing pool tournaments has been paid in full on time. Just as it is supposed to be.

I do believe the WPA put pressure on Makabenta to make payment, but evidently it only caused the postponement of another WPA event. But the players are still unpaid. That is unacceptable.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
There's no way to let something like this slide for so long. You make sure the money's there before it even starts... but if for some reason you come up short, you make it right ASAP. Don't assume you can blow off the players. Be honest about it and stay in touch with them and let them know what you're doing to get them their due.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Come on, nothing is going to change. This has been going on with this particular promoter for 3 straight years now. Hell, last year, Edwin Reyes was killed over this. The players still show up to his events.

Sorry Jay, but this thread is like a car alarm going off. No one cares or pays attention anymore. 2 or 3 yrs ago, people made a big stink about his events not paying. But the players still went to them, and got stiffed.

A guy gets killed and nothing changes. What do you think it will take to change anything?
 

jrackman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I hesitated to post this thread but it needs to come out, whether from me or someone else. Mika won 60K and hasn't been paid a dime yet! Worse yet, he is getting no communication from the people who owe him the money. There is no response to his e-mails or phone calls. I suspect the same about Lee Van Corteza, and his 30K for second. I will find out for sure tomorrow at Hard Times. This event ended five months ago!

It was sanctioned by the WPA and hopefully they are doing something to help the players who are owed prize money. That I don't know. This event was given wide billing and television coverage all over the Philippines and Asia. If this story of unpaid prize monies comes out in the filipino media it would be a huge embarrassment to the Philippine government, who make such a big deal of events like this being held on their soil. Plus the runner-up Lee Van Corteza is one of their own!

In posting this now, I am hopeful that a ground swell of support for Mika will begin, and he will get all the prize money due to him. I was there and he played his heart out to win. To be the bearer of news like this absolutely sickens me. Let's see what we can do to straighten it out for Mika and the others who remain unpaid. Sometimes I think this forum carries more collective weight than any of pool's governing bodies. We reach everywhere pool is played.

It's time to sweep all the deadbeats out of the game. I'd rather see fewer events than any more non paying events. The same goes for deadbeats in other aspects of the pool industry. If someone works for you, whether it be a TD, referee, reporter, photographer or whatever, then by all means PAY THEM! You know who you are and you're next!
Jay, why haven't these promoters been forced to put the money in escrow(a trustworthy 3rd party)account before the events. I think this would lessen the damage to all involved.Or maybe the Players,TD's Ref's etc. need to band together and get some type of legal rep. Just asking...thanks Jeff
 

monica

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of the BASIC functions & responsibilities that an organization is "supposed" to do when sanctioning an event is to have an escrow ! If your not going to do this basic thing don't push yourself on the world to be the organization that you have to go through in order to get the best players in the world. I support the WPA but this has to stop and it looks bad on them.
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I agree it sucks that players are not getting paid for some tournaments, but the players themselves have to take some of the heat for jumping on planes and flying all over the world not knowing if the purse money is really there. In most cases word gets out ahead of time that there might be a problem with the purse or the purses might be smaller than the flyer states. Johnnyt
 

JimS

Grandpa & his grand boys.
Silver Member
Thank you Jay for taking a public stance and putting some pressure where it needs to be applied. I can see how taking this step is not something a guy in your position wants to do.

You, as well as Mark Griffin.. who posted his agreement with your position, are to be congratulated for taking the ethical stand.

This situation is astounding and those who are withholding the funds should be prosecuted. This practice is intolerable.
 
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KoolKat9Lives

Taught 'em all I know
Silver Member
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Makes me wanna pull wings off flies and kick little puppies I tell ya.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jay, why haven't these promoters been forced to put the money in escrow(a trustworthy 3rd party)account before the events. I think this would lessen the damage to all involved.Or maybe the Players,TD's Ref's etc. need to band together and get some type of legal rep. Just asking...thanks Jeff


I think this question should be directed at the people/organization who have sanctioned these events. About all I can do is what I am doing. Alert the pool community at large to what's going on. I have also sent e-mails with no response, and phone text messages on my last trip to the PI that were not returned. This particular promoter has staged several major tournaments in the Philippines, all with major fanfare. To the best of my knowledge all monies from previous events have been paid, although not in a timely manner. This has to do solely with last years World Ten Ball Championship.

It seems professional players are willing to take their chances, knowing that the prize money may be doled out slowly over a period of time. In recent years this has been a problem with the various "World Championship" events held in the Philippines. Although I might add that is not the case with the tournaments staged by Dragon Promotions, also in Manila. What I endeavor to do on a personal basis is not be associated as a TD with a promoter that may not pay the prize money in a timely manner. But I have been burned as well.

The precedence for this was established by the IPT when they took nearly three years to pay the prize money from their final tournament. Some of it which still may not be paid in full. It sent a message to other prospective promoters that they could get away with this. There appeared to be no governing body or jurisdiction that would hold such promoters accountable. Pressures were brought to bear on the IPT (and Trudeau) from the private sector that ultimately led to a payment plan being agreed upon, which has been mostly (but not entirely) adhered to.

Fortunately for the pool professionals, such instances are still in the minority. Individual promoters like Mark Griffin, Greg Sullivan and Allen Hopkins have always paid prize money without fail. Promotional entities and tours such as Matchroom, the Eurotour, the Seminole Tribe, Dragon Promotions, Billiards International, the WPBA and various regional tours also have a clean record insofar as paying all prize monies. Unfortunately a few bad promoters have spoiled it for everyone else. It is the old maxim that applies here, "One rotten apple spoils the whole barrel."

This is one reason I was so outraged years ago by the actions of Trudeau and the IPT. I knew that his behavior would affect legitimate pool promoters as well. We would all be painted with the same brush in the eyes of the media and prospective sponsors. Such failings affect an entire industry, more so than any perceived bad image or negative stigma which many believe (incorrectly I might add) is attached to pool. The image of pool is not bad, but the perception of pool promoters due to the actions of a few, has made the task that much more difficult for the honest ones.
 
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mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
My question is why shouldn't the forum be a governing body? Only a couple of things need to happen for it to become one.

The forum has a good action list. Why shouldn't there be a bad action list for tournament promoters who owe money to players?

A thread should be posted which would be a comprehensive list of bad promoters and a list of how much money they owe players.
 

ironman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think this question should be directed at the people/organization who have sanctioned these events. About all I can do is what I am doing. Alert the pool community at large to what's going on. I have also sent e-mails with no response, and phone text messages on my last trip to the PI that were not returned. This particular promoter has staged several major tournaments in the Philippines, all with major fanfare. To the best of my knowledge all monies from previous events have been paid, although not in a timely manner. This has to do solely with last years World Ten Ball Championship.

It seems professional players are willing to take their chances, knowing that the prize money may be doled out slowly over a period of time. In recent years this has been a problem with the various "World Championship" events held in the Philippines. Although I might add that is not the case with the tournaments staged by Dragon Promotions, also in Manila. What I endeavor to do on a personal basis is not be associated as a TD with a promoter that may not pay the prize money in a timely manner. But I have been burned as well.

The precedence for this was established by the IPT when they took nearly three years to pay the prize money from their final tournament. Some of it which still may not be paid in full. It sent a message to other prospective promoters that they could get away with this. There appeared to be no governing body or jurisdiction that would hold such promoters accountable. Pressures were brought to bear on the IPT (and Trudeau) from the private sector that ultimately led to a payment plan being agreed upon, which has been mostly (but not entirely) adhered to.

Fortunately for the pool professionals, such instances are still in the minority. Individual promoters like Mark Griffin, Greg Sullivan and Allen Hopkins have always paid prize money without fail. Promotional entities and tours such as Matchroom, the Eurotour, the Seminole Tribe, Dragon Promotions, Billiards International, the WPBA and various regional tours also have a clean record insofar as paying all prize monies. Unfortunately a few bad promoters have spoiled it for everyone else. It is the old maxim that applies here, "One rotten apple spoils the whole barrel."

This is one reason I was so outraged years ago by the actions of Trudeau and the IPT. I knew that his behavior would affect legitimate pool promoters as well. We would all be painted with the same brush in the eyes of the media and prospective sponsors. Such failings affect an entire industry, more so than any perceived bad image or negative stigma which many believe (incorrectly I might add) is attached to pool. The image of pool is not bad, but the perception of pool promoters due to the actions of a few, has made the task that much more difficult for the honest ones.

This business has far too many people taking a free shot at the risk of pool players! KT did it and others have done it.

I would be willing to bet if you had a concern about what mark Griffin were promoting and had a question about it, he would answer, not be offended, and answer until you were satisfied with his answer. That is jus the nature of business. KT would have thrown a shit fit, because number 1 he probably didn't know the answer and secondly all his actions were totally self serving.

The same thing happened with Galveston last year, They had no experience, set themselves up to faill, and took great ofense to all questions and recomendations. The result, a total, total "Goat Rope"!

one thing the pool world has leanrend and hopefully very well over tha past few years, is that, "everything that Glitters is not gold"!

i agree with another poster also, but will take it one step further, all thse new people promoting the get richevents with no proven track record should be willing to ascrow and understand the demand for such. As a wise man sai, "In God we trust,All others must post"!
 

Roy Steffensen

locksmith
Silver Member
Sad news...

But what to do? I've warned people and some od the top pros about Yen "the Rat" Makabenta for over 2 years now. They won't listen, mostly because the events are sanctioned by the WPA...

I've given up, almost don't care anymore, because it definitely looks like the players don't care.

They keep supporting promotors with a bad reputation, so what do they really expect?
 

vagabond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mark Griffin and CSI (CueSports International) -

I do believe the WPA put pressure on Makabenta to make payment, but evidently it only caused the postponement of another WPA event. But the players are still unpaid. That is unacceptable.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI



Safety warning: Pine Apple Maffia has it`s hitman planted in this country too. I will not mess with them.:cool:
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Safety warning: Pine Apple Maffia has it`s hitman planted in this country too. I will not mess with them.:cool:

Pine Apple Mafia my ass! If there was a real "organization" backing these events there would be no problem getting paid! These are individuals who are unable to come up with the promised money, as simple as that.

The mob controlled the Stardust when we had the big tournaments there many years ago. And all the money was always good! The pool players had no problem getting comp rooms and food as well. These guys loved the pool players. The real bosses in the Philippines also respect the pool players. Efren and Django are their heros too, right along with Paquiao.

I like you Vag, but you're off base here.
 

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Aficionado
Silver Member
Unless you're playing in a Mark Griffin type event, with a stellar rep, put the effin' money on the light. Escrow, baby, escrow!

It's amazing to me how these guys have the balls to stiff pool players. I mean, you'd think sure, let's stiff the ballet dancers, or the bell hop, but let's not mess with pool players. But they do, and the players keep coming back for more. Maybe the money is not that important to them. A title, a shiny trophy, and an IOU will suffice. :confused:

As it is, the prize money in our sport is laughable. At last years SBE I watched SVB playing in the pit against a very pregnant girl something like 7 ahead for 2 or 3 grand (see below). Sure she got all the breaks and lots of weight, but could you ever imagine Tiger playing a pregnant girl, closest to the pin, for a few thousand?

BTW, I don't blame SVB one little bit. Look at his (official) money winnings - for who he is, it's kinda pathetic. So, until prize money and payouts get fixed (if they ever do) ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do.

Best,
Brian kc
 

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