Tight grip tips????????????

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Due to injuries from a car wreck( broken neck and spinal-cord damage at C-6) i have to employ a tighter than recommended grip. Kind of a full hand hammer grip. Any ideas on how to better utilize this less than desirable grip? Been trying a shorter, punchier action and its ok for short and medium speed shots but i just can't use that looser, snappier delivery like before on stroke shots. TIA
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
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Due to injuries from a car wreck( broken neck and spinal-cord damage at C-6) i have to employ a tighter than recommended grip. Kind of a full hand hammer grip. Any ideas on how to better utilize this less than desirable grip? Been trying a shorter, punchier action and its ok for short and medium speed shots but i just can't use that looser, snappier delivery like before on stroke shots. TIA
I'm curious. Can you explain what the problem is with using a lighter grip? Do you let go of the cue stick?
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Due to injuries from a car wreck( broken neck and spinal-cord damage at C-6) i have to employ a tighter than recommended grip. Kind of a full hand hammer grip. Any ideas on how to better utilize this less than desirable grip? Been trying a shorter, punchier action and its ok for short and medium speed shots but i just can't use that looser, snappier delivery like before on stroke shots. TIA
Is the problem that the tight grip restricts the range of stroke motion? Have you tried using more upper arm movement (like a Filipino stroke)?

Fair warning: I have no idea what I'm talking about.

pj
chgo
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Due to injuries from a car wreck( broken neck and spinal-cord damage at C-6) i have to employ a tighter than recommended grip. Kind of a full hand hammer grip. Any ideas on how to better utilize this less than desirable grip? Been trying a shorter, punchier action and its ok for short and medium speed shots but i just can't use that looser, snappier delivery like before on stroke shots. TIA

Send me a PM. Happy to give you a free lesson with reasonable adjustments to fix shots using a tight grip.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm curious. Can you explain what the problem is with using a lighter grip? Do you let go of the cue stick?
My hand opens and closes with wrist movement. I have no control over this. Kinda hard to explain but, if i pivot my wrist inwards my fingers open and if i pivot outwards they close and tighten. If i try a looser grip the cue literally falls out of hand. I have to grip it kinda a hammer. Best explanation i can give.
 

Bob Jewett

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My hand opens and closes with wrist movement. I have no control over this. Kinda hard to explain but, if i pivot my wrist inwards my fingers open and if i pivot outwards they close and tighten. If i try a looser grip the cue literally falls out of hand. I have to grip it kinda a hammer. Best explanation i can give.
One suggestion is to get a rubber roll-on grip. Some are tackier than others. The cheapest option is a latex "Penrose surgical drain" in an 18-inch length, 7/8-inch diameter. It's also tackier than most purpose-made rubber grips. Maybe that will allow a little reduction without losing the cue.

Have you tried playing opposite-handed?

Is there any way for you to use just your index finger and thumb and hold onto your index finger with your thumb?
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One suggestion is to get a rubber roll-on grip. Some are tackier than others. The cheapest option is a latex "Penrose surgical drain" in an 18-inch length, 7/8-inch diameter. It's also tackier than most purpose-made rubber grips. Maybe that will allow a little reduction without losing the cue.

Have you tried playing opposite-handed?

Is there any way for you to use just your index finger and thumb and hold onto your index finger with your thumb?
I tried the rubber grips but to me they make the butt feel HUGE in my hand. Can't make a bridge with my right hand nor the thumb/finger grip. I think the all-elbow action is easiest route. I can't really use wrist-action at all. Thanks for the suggestions.
 

3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I;m not an expert either but if you threw up a video of the problem showing when you lose the cue you might get some answers. I remember a long time ago someone here developed a device to help a player with something he couldn't overcome without an additional device.

Crude and depending on when you lose the cue, how about putting a rubber band or tie a string around your wrist and slide the butt into it? Would just that help in any way? If so maybe something more convenient could be designed.
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lots of players use fist grips. It's the grip tension that counts, depending on the shot. Some shots even call for tighter grips.

My suggestion for most of your shots is to use the loosest fist grip you can without losing the cue. It's okay if it slides a little but not a lot.
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This was posted by Mr3Cushion on the OnePocket.org site

So above I mention a, 'Secret' I intentionally left out of the explanation.

I also did this, I think subconsciously in the my book in the, 'Fundamentals' chapter. I think it's because I learned the game in an era, where everyone guarded those little gems that they just couldn't give up! I guess I felt the same way, let them think figure it out!

And, I'm a little surprised no one here even touched on it. Here it is, 'Grip Pressure' at the point of contact on the CB!

For myself, the, 'Pre-shot routine' (warm-up strokes before the stance) is where most of the magic happens for me. For those that believe there are, 'different strokes' in the cue games, this is where many 3C players determine what stroke to apply for that particular shot that faces them.

I try to imitate in these warm-up strokes, the, timing, tempo, speed of the cue tip and distance to travel, and the grip pressure I feel I need at the impact of the CB to impart the correct effect on the CB!
End post.

In my opinion each shot has it's own grip pressure. Some pressures will be light, some medium and some firm. Depends on the shot at hand. Grip pressure can be applied using all four fingers or by using any of the four fingers on the hand.

Here is a player that knows a thing or two about grip pressures. Pedro, a stoke of beauty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDUYpPWoxUY&t=1378s

Just MHO. :)

John
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can you describe some that do, and why?

Thanks,

pj
chgo

Ray Schuler taught me that you can transfer power through a tighter grip. It works well on break shots to tighten at impact. Also, power draw shots, if you're so inclined. I also found that tightening my grip on shots where I barely can stroke helps keep the cue steady, like shooting off the rail when the cb is frozen.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Ray Schuler taught me that you can transfer power through a tighter grip. It works well on break shots to tighten at impact. Also, power draw shots, if you're so inclined.
Makes sense on its surface - but, FYI, pool scientists say it isn't really true because the soft skin on your hand gives a little and "disconnects" your hand from the impact with the CB, despite gripping tightly.

I also found that tightening my grip on shots where I barely can stroke helps keep the cue steady, like shooting off the rail when the cb is frozen.
I don't have personal experience with this, but it sounds worth trying.

pj
chgo
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Makes sense on its surface - but, FYI, pool scientists say it isn't really true because the soft skin on your hand gives a little and "disconnects" your hand from the impact with the CB, despite gripping tightly.


I don't have personal experience with this, but it sounds worth trying.

pj
chgo

I'm a little skeptical about the 'soft skin' thing. Has that actually been proven or is it more of a theory?
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm a little skeptical about the 'soft skin' thing. Has that actually been proven or is it more of a theory?

I'm interested to know that, too. I've heard that idea floating around but is it really anything more than an idea? I wonder if something like Digicue can provide numbers that would show differences between a tight vs loose grip.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
... pool scientists say ... the soft skin on your hand gives a little and "disconnects" your hand from the impact with the CB, despite gripping tightly.

I'm a little skeptical about the 'soft skin' thing. Has that actually been proven or is it more of a theory?

I'm interested to know that, too. I've heard that idea floating around but is it really anything more than an idea?

On Dr. Dave's resource page on "effects of light vs. tight grip" he says:

"Can grip pressure affect the cue ball during tip contact? The short answer is: No. ... Bottom line: The CB is long gone before any "flesh effects" can be "felt" by the tip."

He does allow that a very tight grip might increase CB speed some, probably at some cost to accuracy. He also mentions the possibility that tightening the grip during the stroke could add wrist movement that increases speed - an actual technique used by some. If there's a real difference I lean toward this explanation (see Fran's description of "tightening on impact").

Dave has a high speed video of the hand/cue during impact, but the link to it on his page is broken. Maybe he'll see this and give us a better link.

pj
chgo
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On Dr. Dave's resource page on "effects of light vs. tight grip" he says:

"Can grip pressure affect the cue ball during tip contact? The short answer is: No. ... Bottom line: The CB is long gone before any "flesh effects" can be "felt" by the tip."

He does allow that a very tight grip might increase CB speed some, probably at some cost to accuracy. He also mentions the possibility that tightening the grip during the stroke could add wrist movement that increases speed - an actual technique used by some. If there's a real difference I lean toward this explanation (see Fran's description of "tightening on impact").

Dave has a high speed video of the hand/cue during impact, but the link to it on his page is broken. Maybe he'll see this and give us a better link.

pj
chgo

I'm a big fan of Dave's work but I'm not convinced by the information on his site. (That video of the hand works for me but I'm not sure what the purpose of the video is). All I really see is the comment that a tighter grip doesn't matter because the contact time is so short. That's not really proof of anything. It's just a guess. On the other hand, I do see at least a technical explanation as to why the bridge hand cannot matter, having to do with the time it takes for vibrations to reach the bridge hand and so on.

Of course whether a tight grip does anything different during tip contact is an entirely different question compared to whether tightening the grip might cause you to hit the ball in a different way re speed, english and so on. In other words, body mechanics change with a tight grip and that probably means you will hit the cue ball differently in some ways as a result.

I think this one needs to be "fleshed out" a bit more.
 

Bob Jewett

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I'm interested to know that, too. I've heard that idea floating around but is it really anything more than an idea? I wonder if something like Digicue can provide numbers that would show differences between a tight vs loose grip.

Yes, there is data, but not with a variety of grips. The result is that the spring constant (force per unit distance of compression/expansion) of a typical grip is 1/100th of the tip-ball spring constant.That means that while the hand can exert a small influence during the shot, the flesh of the hand is "wound up" only a small fraction of the way by the time the ball leaves the tip.

This info was first extracted from the Jacksonville Experiment videos and was published in Billiards Digest in 1999. Here is a link to three related articles http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/jax_bd150.pdf including the measurement of hand response vs. tip response. It would have been nice to have an accelerometer on the cue as well and there are other results that have been published with accelerometer data.

But the net minor effect of a tight grip is that the cue stick will play very slightly heavier than using a very light grip. I think that is not worth changing your fundamentals. Perhaps Pat Fleming's slip-on shaft weight tube is a better way to get a heavier stick temporarily.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, there is data, but not with a variety of grips. The result is that the spring constant (force per unit distance of compression/expansion) of a typical grip is 1/100th of the tip-ball spring constant.That means that while the hand can exert a small influence during the shot, the flesh of the hand is "wound up" only a small fraction of the way by the time the ball leaves the tip.

This info was first extracted from the Jacksonville Experiment videos and was published in Billiards Digest in 1999. Here is a link to three related articles http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/jax_bd150.pdf including the measurement of hand response vs. tip response. It would have been nice to have an accelerometer on the cue as well and there are other results that have been published with accelerometer data.

But the net minor effect of a tight grip is that the cue stick will play very slightly heavier than using a very light grip. I think that is not worth changing your fundamentals. Perhaps Pat Fleming's slip-on shaft weight tube is a better way to get a heavier stick temporarily.

Thanks, Bob. I'll take a look at those links.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, there is data, but not with a variety of grips. The result is that the spring constant (force per unit distance of compression/expansion) of a typical grip is 1/100th of the tip-ball spring constant.That means that while the hand can exert a small influence during the shot, the flesh of the hand is "wound up" only a small fraction of the way by the time the ball leaves the tip.

This info was first extracted from the Jacksonville Experiment videos and was published in Billiards Digest in 1999. Here is a link to three related articles http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/jax_bd150.pdf including the measurement of hand response vs. tip response. It would have been nice to have an accelerometer on the cue as well and there are other results that have been published with accelerometer data.

But the net minor effect of a tight grip is that the cue stick will play very slightly heavier than using a very light grip. I think that is not worth changing your fundamentals. Perhaps Pat Fleming's slip-on shaft weight tube is a better way to get a heavier stick temporarily.

I think it's great that it was even considered for testing way back in 1999, and even though I'm not scientific, I'm logical, and I'm still a bit skeptical in that I think it's not so easy to test something like that and factor in all the potential variables such as consistency of grip pressure throughout the stroke and whether or not there was additional acceleration provided by wrist movement with the loose grip, and so-on.

I have to admit it's a tough one, but strictly as a player, I feel the difference in power when I tighten my grip on certain shots and it feels like more than just slightly different.
 
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