Roys looking for matches for Filler

I agree with Mole Eye and anyone else that believes that this is a tactical move of sorts,negotiating if you will.

If I were either of them,I'd be looking for a set of BOTH games,because I just gotta know....

I'd also say to hell with this new-age digital woofing,I'd go looking for the other guy.

Here's what I don't understand. Shane is clearly the best 10 ball breaker. He also breaks the shit out of a 9 ball rack,so I can't see how he can think he somehow has a disadvantage at 9 ball and won't play.

Josh is the current U.S. Open/World 9 Ball Champion,he's SUPPOSED to feel like the best player in the world,period. Why not play,esp when he knows ahead of time he doesn't have a nickel invested? Tommy D.

I am a big fan of SVB and Filler. They are both legendary. Neither are invincible.

We all love the idea that a superhero will come along that is better than everyone else in the world, and will get down with anyone, in any format, for any amount, and run over the world. SVB is close. Filler is close. But neither are superhuman.

SVB dominated for many years, but he took losses too. Alex beat him when he was inexperienced. Earl beat him on the 10'. And other players beat him in other formats along the way. Chohan in one pocket. JL Change a time or three. I can't remember all the losses he took. But there were a few.

Filler in turn isn't invincible. He will book some losses along the way.

If they played each other either is capable of winning, either is capable of losing. SVB could win the 9 ball. Filler could win the 10 ball. There might be a betting favorite, but no one would be giving up big odds on either side. There have been matches where one side was drawing almost dead, but with two players of this stature they both could win regardless of format.

I think the players understand that. Yes, Filler wants to beat the world, but playing SVB in a format that proves disadvantageous doesn't help his resume or his bankroll any. And SVB isn't looking to get run over in a shooting contest. They understand they are human. Why can't we?

I don't disagree with those who think there is a favorite. My point is only that these are real people and they are both being careful because it would be a serious fight for both of them and neither wants to lose big right now. A game might happen, but it will be calculated, not an impromptu coin flip in the action room at DCC.

A match I would love to see happen is Filler vs Wu 9b.

The US open final was too short of a race.

Really need a huge round Robin or king of the hill between

Wu
Filler
Shane
Chang JL
Ko
Ko
Shaw
Raga
Dennis
Kaci
Gorst
Biado

Races to 100 or 120 10 ball, neutral racker, can check rack.

And just because we are talking about the greatest, play it on the Diamond Bigfoot 10'er.

I'm sure all these players could get backed for 10 - 20k each.

Winner take all, or maybe 2nd gets their cash back.

Winner stays king of the hill and must accept all challengers for the same 10 or 20k unless more is agreed upon.

Come on Roy, make it happen.

They could draw #'s for order of play, that way a "King" could be established immediately.

Then do daily, weekly or monthly after that for the rest of the players and their schedule.

Tin Man said:

I don't disagree with those who think there is a favorite. My point is only that these are real people and they are both being careful because it would be a serious fight for both of them and neither wants to lose big right now. A game might happen, but it will be calculated, not an impromptu coin flip in the action room at DCC.

Click to expand...

Great post. Even if each views himself as the favorite in a head-to-head matchup, these superstars are probably looking for an easier game, and that makes sense. A big stakes match between them will likely only happen if they are, for the most part, betting someone else's money.

Would Shane be willing to play shorter sets? Say to 25 or 30 or is he dead set on marathon matches?

jay helfert said:

9-Ball may be the primary tournament game but it is definitely not the primary money game for the top players. As we both know, Ten Ball is a little more difficult and thus a better test of skill among the very best players. That's about as simple as I can make it.

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Very true Jay, very true.

Heck, 9 ball with a template is easy for most any "A" speed player and up. So, the average pro probably thinks 9 ball is too easy not to mention, the ELITE. OMG....9 ball may as well be 6 ball to the elite.

9 ball is = best lager wins

10 ball = best breaker/shot maker/safety player wins.

The longer the race, the more true ^^^^^^^^ is.

Jeff

jasonlaus said:

Really need a huge round Robin or king of the hill between

Wu
Filler
Shane
Chang JL
Ko
Ko
Shaw
Raga
Dennis
Kaci
Gorst
Biado

Races to 100 or 120 10 ball, neutral racker, can check rack.

And just because we are talking about the greatest, play it on the Diamond Bigfoot 10'er.

I'm sure all these players could get backed for 10 - 20k each.

Winner take all, or maybe 2nd gets their cash back.

Winner stays king of the hill and must accept all challengers for the same 10 or 20k unless more is agreed upon.

Come on Roy, make it happen.

They could draw #'s for order of play, that way a "King" could be established immediately.

Then do daily, weekly or monthly after that for the rest of the players and their schedule.

Click to expand...

The closest we have to something like this is the Bigfoot tournament at DCC. That is always an elite field, playing a tough game, on a big table. It's a real test of true pool ability. You've done something if you've won that tournament!

jrctherake said:

Very true Jay, very true.

Heck, 9 ball with a template is easy for most any "A" speed player and up. So, the average pro probably thinks 9 ball is too easy not to mention, the ELITE. OMG....9 ball may as well be 6 ball to the elite.

9 ball is = best lager wins

10 ball = best breaker/shot maker/safety player wins.

The longer the race, the more true ^^^^^^^^ is.

Jeff

Click to expand...

9-ball with a template is best played with the 9-ball on the spot. Not as automatic to make a wing ball.

ChrisinNC said:

9-ball with a template is best played with the 9-ball on the spot. Not as automatic to make a wing ball.

Click to expand...

Yes, 9 on the spot is better but, on new cloth and new balls even with 9 on spot, the wing ball is pretty reliable.

If they played all tournaments on two month old cloth and mildly used and non-polished balls....the 9 on spot would be the perfect game. The wing wouldn't EVER go unless it was kicked in.

Then again, with worn cloth and balls and 9 on spot......the 1 ball is very sought after in the side pocket. I still think it would be a better game.

As it is, a player don't have to be all that strong to be a run-out player on any given day in most tournament formats (short and quick).... I reckon that was the idea behind 9 ball in the beginning.....quick and dramatic.

Jeff

Random racking for all balls except the 9.
Any made balls spot up immediately.

Either of those 2 could add complexity to the wing ball, or auto position on the 1.

Here's my 2 cents:

1) Someone having a better tournament record has nothing to do with a gambling match between the two.

2) Filler losing his match in the Mosconi Cup will have no bearing on his future playing skills.

3) Shane playing ten ball under his conditions (RYO, long race, big money, Winner breaks) is the favorite against anyone. No one can put the packages together like Shane. You just can't fade that many racks.

4) There is no question Filler is a great player. If he thought he could beat Shane at ten ball he would play. He wouldn't be concerned about future action. Once Shane put some packages together I think Filler would fade.

jrctherake said:

Very true Jay, very true.

Heck, 9 ball with a template is easy for most any "A" speed player and up. So, the average pro probably thinks 9 ball is too easy not to mention, the ELITE. OMG....9 ball may as well be 6 ball to the elite.

9 ball is = best lager wins

10 ball = best breaker/shot maker/safety player wins.

The longer the race, the more true ^^^^^^^^ is.

Jeff

Click to expand...

Then why aren't A players snapping off the pros?

Complete BS statement.

jasonlaus said:

Then why aren't A players snapping off the pros?

Complete BS statement.

Click to expand...

It's my opinion. You have yours.

Life's to short to argue with someone that is so uneducated that they have to resort to name calling etc...etc, at the first sign of someone that has a different opinion on "any" subject.

You can waste your time trying to police my opinions but, I'm done with you.

That sir, is one thing you cannot control.

Have a good day sir.

Jeff

one stroke said:

If your the best breaker the other 2 don't come into play very often as we saw for days of Shane breaking and running lot and DO breaking bad not making a ball or not getting a shot ,,
But anyways the thread is getting lost as just a Shane Filler thing ,, and the post of Roys is off his personal page, not the Roys Basement page which I wish someone would post that it's still at the top of the page I just checked,, he's looking for any game with anyone


1

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IMO, in 10 ball, the reason most pros dont have a high % BnR is because the lanes are more congested...where as, in 9 ball, if they make a ball on the break, their chances of getting out is much greater.

Again, IMO....just a good break will get most pros out in 9 ball. In 10 ball, I'm of the opinion that it takes a tad more up-n-down the table with the lanes blocked a good deal of the time.

Only the strong breakers that average a ~couple balls or so...dominate in 10 ball.

Efren had a very weak break even at his best but, 9 ball was a walk in the park for him. On the other hand, he didn't dominate in 10 ball....not that I know of.

Yes....I the thread went off track quick.

I too would like to see Filler in action soon and often. The kids amazing. I'm really looking forward to see him play after he is a bit more seasoned.

Jeff

jrctherake said:

IMO, in 10 ball, the reason most pros dont have a high % BnR is because the lanes are more congested...where as, in 9 ball, if they make a ball on the break, their chances of getting out is much greater.

Again, IMO....just a good break will get most pros out in 9 ball. In 10 ball, I'm of the opinion that it takes a tad more up-n-down the table with the lanes blocked a good deal of the time.

Only the strong breakers that average a ~couple balls or so...dominate in 10 ball.

Efren had a very weak break even at his best but, 9 ball was a walk in the park for him. On the other hand, he didn't dominate in 10 ball....not that I know of.

Yes....I the thread went off track quick.

I too would like to see Filler in action soon and often. The kids amazing. I'm really looking forward to see him play after he is a bit more seasoned.

Jeff

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One more ball in traffic isn't going to bother most pros.
A triangle rack is tougher to make balls on than on diamond shaped rack.
Dennis couldn't make a ball on his breaks against Shane in their last match.
And when he amped his break, he scratched his cue ball often.
The 10-ball break is a much tougher nut to crack.

The 9-ball cut break was figured more than two decades ago by Parica and has made 9-ball a much easier game .

JoeyInCali said:

One more ball in traffic isn't going to bother most pros.
A triangle rack is tougher to make balls on than on diamond shaped rack.
Dennis couldn't make a ball on his breaks against Shane in their last match.
And when he amped his break, he scratched his cue ball often.
The 10-ball break is a much tougher nut to crack.

The 9-ball cut break was figured more than two decades ago by Parica and has made 9-ball a much easier game .

Click to expand...

It's not about the extra ball. It's the way the 10 ball rack spreads.

The break is the most important shot in most all games for a reason and 10 ball is no different.

As we all know, even the average pro has a problem making a ball on the break and getting a good look at the one in 10 ball. Why? Is it because of the extra ball or is it because of the "way" the 10 ball rack spreads?

The 10 ball rack is nowhere near as predictable as the 9 ball rack.

Like you said, it's not the extra ball...it's the way the rack spreads due to it's shape and the stroke speed required to make a ball and have a look at the 1.

I wasn't saying the extra ball meant anything (or at least I didn't mean to) but, I did say the lanes are more out to be congested causing problems going up and down the table until two or three balls are made.

A player (SVB) that can remove a couple balls on the break and get a look at the one ball is the winner in 10 ball.

Even Shane has problems getting out a lot of times if he make only one ball on the 10 ball break.

Most of his BnR's are off breaks where he makes two or more balls.

I either worded my post wrong or you took it wrong.

In the end, we agree.

Hey, at least you didn't tell me my post was complete BS.

Thanks for being civilized. That in itself makes conversations about our sport more enjoyable. At least it does for me. I don't like unessacery drama.

I'm retired and I plan on having as little stress in my retirement as possible. I worked in an extremely stressful field for over three decades and was fortunate enough to get lucky with a couple investments so, I choose to not be involved with a55hats that either don't know how or choose to not be civilized.

You and I agree on the subject at hand but, even if we didn't, you have proven to be a gentleman either way.

Jeff

JoeyInCali said:

One more ball in traffic isn't going to bother most pros.
A triangle rack is tougher to make balls on than on diamond shaped rack.
Dennis couldn't make a ball on his breaks against Shane in their last match.
And when he amped his break, he scratched his cue ball often.
The 10-ball break is a much tougher nut to crack.

The 9-ball cut break was figured more than two decades ago by Parica and has made 9-ball a much easier game .

Click to expand...

And yes, the wooden triangle is a game changer in 10 ball for everyone. Even monster breakers like SVB doesn't BnR as much with a triangle but, it's hard to tell sometimes because he hits em so darn hard and still keeps control.

Filler is a ball making machine.

SVB is a rack crushing machine and can make balls with the best of them. IMO, that gives him the edge in his favorite game and format, which is why he holds out for that particular game....and gets it.

To be honest, I don't think the rack your own is a deal breaker with Shane if he knows the neutral racker will give a good tight and straight rack every time.

I've watched SVB several times and IMO, he is as honest with racking as any pro alive. He doesn't cheat with gaps like Shaw claims. SVB just put enough time in to find his niche that gives him a big enough edge to beat most anyone.

Jeff

To have a shot at Shane, go with tight pockets and old cloth. Shane won't play Dennis on table #1 or #6 at HardTimes. Believe he said he won't gamble there himself.

I'd take Dennis at HardTimes 9b over Shane even with Shane slaughtering him over 30+ racks in 10b.