Poker Is Killing The Pool Industry

dave sutton

Banned
cuetime said:
I guess if your more into luck than skill, poker is the game for you. In pool, you can't bluff a shot that you need to make, you either make it or you don't. Sure, you can blow a shot and play the husstle game. In Poker, you can have a "garbage" hand and "bluff your way to a win. Do you really believe there are more husstlers in pool than in poker? If you do, I can't believe you're really a player.
How many times have you been beaten with pocket Kings or Aces by someone that caught 3 of a kind on the river? That's luck!
There's skill and luck involved in every game. Many people enjoy pool, many people enjoy poker, quite a few enjoy both. It's unfortunate you've had such a bad experience with pool.
One thing is for certain. Many, many more people have been hurt playing poker. Casinos aren't making billions of dollars because players are winning big.
You mentioned that "pool is way worse than poker" but you didn't mention how. I'd be interested in hearing that. I'm also not sure of what point that I missed (other than the luck vs. skill part) I've heard of far more poker stories where someone has "dumped" games in order to "up" the ante. It's the history of the game.
I could be wrong, I'll check when I get a chance, but I believe that Pool is considered a game of skill and Poker is considered a game of chance. That about says it all. If I'm going to bet money, I want to rely more on skill than luck.
Both games offer entertainment, I don't think we have to choose one over the other. Why not enjoy both?


well first let me start by telling you poker in the red headed stepchild of the casino. you could put a dozen slot machines and make more money then poker. poker is the only game you dont play against the house. i have to say there are times in this discussion that i really dont think u know what ur talkin about.

ppl dont "dump games to up the ante" what are u talking about? in pool ive lost sets to keep someone around or double the bet. this doesnt happen in poker. sorry. also good players rarely bluff. its a sucker move and you get caught more than u win.

about looking with made hands kk or aa. thats the game. how many times have u shit a ball in and ran out or broke and didnt make a ball and the other player ran out. how about when u break and squad the rock and a ball kicks it in the side. there are a million things in both games.
 

nfty9er

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The jail statement needs to be corrected

dave sutton said:
depends on the field of play. the casinos there is almost no way to cheat. collusion does occur and ppl do TRY to play together but it is very hard and you will get caught. everyone does. u have many ppl watching the games.

if you choose to play a home game or club you are knowingly taking that risk. along with getting raided going to jail and loosing all of your money anyway.

You of all people should know that in most states it is completely legal to have a home game w/o consequences as long as no one running the game or having the game are making a profit. The reason most pool rooms cannot run tournaments is because if you are selling anything they count that as profit.
This is why pool rooms are suffering, because there are so many home games going on. I drove by my sons house this weekend on a nice day and out front was a bbq, a sandwich bar cart and the garage door open where there were 4 tables set up for 40 players in a weekly tournament. Of these 40 guys about half would be spending time in the pool room. I know a half dozen people that have weekly games. It is disatrous.
Now considering all the online poker now and the millions around the world playing, who do you think has more scumbags hustling. I think you should change your scumbags in pool statement.
After 30 years of owning a pool room that the amount of hustling scumbags have gone way down over the years. The reason for that is the electronic age witht he internet, handicapping systems where everyone knows your speed or the internet where alsmost everyone gets outed now. I know it is easy for me to check when I see a road man come through if I can get his i.d. for the table I will check all over to see who he is. It is just not the same anymore and that is good. Most try to have an honest game now and use backers. They almost have no choice.
But if your getting cheated in a home game you probably will never know it. It is tough in casinos but they still try in poker, remember the m.i.t. gang? They won milliions befoe getting caught.
 

dave sutton

Banned
nfty9er said:
You of all people should know that in most states it is completely legal to have a home game w/o consequences as long as no one running the game or having the game are making a profit. The reason most pool rooms cannot run tournaments is because if you are selling anything they count that as profit.
This is why pool rooms are suffering, because there are so many home games going on. I drove by my sons house this weekend on a nice day and out front was a bbq, a sandwich bar cart and the garage door open where there were 4 tables set up for 40 players in a weekly tournament. Of these 40 guys about half would be spending time in the pool room. I know a half dozen people that have weekly games. It is disatrous.
Now considering all the online poker now and the millions around the world playing, who do you think has more scumbags hustling. I think you should change your scumbags in pool statement.
After 30 years of owning a pool room that the amount of hustling scumbags have gone way down over the years. The reason for that is the electronic age witht he internet, handicapping systems where everyone knows your speed or the internet where alsmost everyone gets outed now. I know it is easy for me to check when I see a road man come through if I can get his i.d. for the table I will check all over to see who he is. It is just not the same anymore and that is good. Most try to have an honest game now and use backers. They almost have no choice.
But if your getting cheated in a home game you probably will never know it. It is tough in casinos but they still try in poker, remember the m.i.t. gang? They won milliions befoe getting caught.

i agree with alot u say. however.the m.i.t. the gang were playing blackjack never poker. home games u play at ur own risk. that why ppl go to our establishment for fair and equal play. internet play is almost dead. very hard to move money. i see so many kids getting cracked bc they THOUGHT they were strong poker player. i can tell just by how they handle chips. i never went to school to deal poker. i learned by knowing the REAL rules and playing 7 days a week. there are alot of former pool players (hustlers) playing cards. more honest.

one major reason for the change is the internet. u are right. a good pool player cant hide. i grew up in a great area. if someone came down for some action and i didnt know him i made 2 phone calls. 1 jose garcia 2 allen hopkins. i know both very very well. i grew up in jose's room. allen lives 10 mins form me. one of the two know the player most likely or he is a nobody. we dont do the i.d. thing in nj or most rooms in pa.
 

nineballman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've seen a big shift in the number of players playing pool vs. poker in our local room. About 20 "regular" pool players are now playing poker 1/2 the time.

Maybe ESPN and other pool sponsors should merge the two. Use these new poker pool balls http://www.playpokerpool.com with some high stakes, not just payouts at end of tourney. Pool needs to capilatize on the existing markets.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Poker is definitely an attraction for pool players, especially those who enjoy games of stake.

Orange Ball in Rockville, Maryland, has a poker game, Hold'em, which is always filled up with at least 40 to 50 players every Wednesday. They play for no money. I think it is kind of like a "poker league," if you will, and one winner will receive an entry fee to an upcoming major poker tournament. The patrons love it, and the pool room owners like it, too, because the poker players are spending money.

Last year in Denver, Colorado, when I was en route to Las Vegas, I stopped by Paradise Billiards. There were several big screens throughout the room, and then there were these hand-held devices with joysticks. I never did figure out how to use them, but what was cool was that patrons could take one of these hand-held devices and play poker against others in the pool room. Everybody could see the cards on the big screens. Of course, there is not supposed to be any gambling, but I think collectively sometimes the participants post up some monies on the side, and the winner collects a chunk of change. Everyone who was playing this poker game seemed to really enjoy it.

Just thought I'd add a little to this thread as it piqued my interest! :p

JAM
 

diller47

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cuetime said:
I guess if your more into luck than skill, poker is the game for you. In pool, you can't bluff a shot that you need to make, you either make it or you don't. Sure, you can blow a shot and play the husstle game. In Poker, you can have a "garbage" hand and "bluff your way to a win. Do you really believe there are more husstlers in pool than in poker? If you do, I can't believe you're really a player.
How many times have you been beaten with pocket Kings or Aces by someone that caught 3 of a kind on the river? That's luck!
There's skill and luck involved in every game. Many people enjoy pool, many people enjoy poker, quite a few enjoy both. It's unfortunate you've had such a bad experience with pool.
One thing is for certain. Many, many more people have been hurt playing poker. Casinos aren't making billions of dollars because players are winning big.
You mentioned that "pool is way worse than poker" but you didn't mention how. I'd be interested in hearing that. I'm also not sure of what point that I missed (other than the luck vs. skill part) I've heard of far more poker stories where someone has "dumped" games in order to "up" the ante. It's the history of the game.
I could be wrong, I'll check when I get a chance, but I believe that Pool is considered a game of skill and Poker is considered a game of chance. That about says it all. If I'm going to bet money, I want to rely more on skill than luck.
Both games offer entertainment, I don't think we have to choose one over the other. Why not enjoy both?


someone here is a little confused the reason people[suck out ]on you kk/aa on the river is usually they played bad hands to start with.no problem these are exactly the people you want in the game.they see these ''moves;; on tv and think they are correct when they suck out on you...BUT they will lose all of the money they have over the course of their playing careers with these bone headed moves.im sure dave will concur with this assesment of players.
around here when someone is told a limo will be sent to pick them up it is not because they have any poker skills but because they are huge losers.keeping the fishtank filled with water and the sharks will survive.and in the words of AMIRILLO SLIM....you can shear a sheep a thousand times but you can only butcher it once lol
 

dave sutton

Banned
diller47 said:
someone here is a little confused the reason people[suck out ]on you kk/aa on the river is usually they played bad hands to start with.no problem these are exactly the people you want in the game.they see these ''moves;; on tv and think they are correct when they suck out on you...BUT they will lose all of the money they have over the course of their playing careers with these bone headed moves.im sure dave will concur with this assesment of players.
around here when someone is told a limo will be sent to pick them up it is not because they have any poker skills but because they are huge losers.keeping the fishtank filled with water and the sharks will survive.and in the words of AMIRILLO SLIM....you can shear a sheep a thousand times but you can only butcher it once lol

while reading this i saw a hammer and a nail and the hammer hit the nail right on the head. nice post
 

skiflyer

New member
All good points in this thread, but don't forget the editing. Those one hour ESPN poker shows are really only about 46 minutes of video. And of that 46 minutes a good 5 minutes are dedicated to "The Nuts" where they sum up the life of some guy, or cover prop bets or some such.

And those 41 minutes of poker contain another 5 minutes of cut shots... so you have about 35 minutes of actual table talk, betting and dealing. That 35 minutes is usually covering 4-5 hours of play time, and that's per table, many stages they have dozens of tables going.... what I'm saying is there's a lot of production going on. You may take literally 100 hours of poker to make your 35 minute segment. Since high level pool is all about runs this gets a little tricky, but I'm sure a good TV editor could figure something out.

Fact is right now the way they edit pool for TV only applies to the pretty serious players, it's like watching the 1986 World Series of Poker, I'm fascinated, but god is it boring to a hobbiest. The money is another big one, but that's not all of it... world series of blackjack gets awful ratings even with a no money in half million dollar prize pool, why? cause it's boring.
 

Dawgie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Porky, how would you gt in touch w/ ESPN, who would you talk to about this? I think you guys have collectively hit upon the answer.

Have gambling on pool games on TV. The initial bets would be cast in the open and if the game was a race to 11, you could still place bets up to the 8th or 9th game but only if you had placed an earlier bet.
 

monski

sweet & pretty
Silver Member
Dawgie said:
Porky, how would you gt in touch w/ ESPN, who would you talk to about this? I think you guys have collectively hit upon the answer.

Have gambling on pool games on TV. The initial bets would be cast in the open and if the game was a race to 11, you could still place bets up to the 8th or 9th game but only if you had placed an earlier bet.
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I like that!
 
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