Billiard Room Design & Ownership

Nineballggs · Oct 28, 2006

In response to "Big Daddy's" ...I want to add table sales to my billiard room.......

Welcome Billiard Fans.....My name is Gary Sanossian, I am writing this thread to offer my services to each and any one of you who would like help........ Below are my qualifications:

1......Designed & opened 18 UPSCALE Billiard rooms throughout the entire Northeast...

2......Playing Pro since 1978....

3......Have never been turned down for ANY license I have applied for....

4......Designed and Maintain 4 web sites....see below....

5......Wrote the law in the state of New Hampshire...concerning Liquor & Billiards.

6......Owned both Non-Smoking & Smoking Rooms....

7......First Billiard Room in Region to ADD Table Sales & Service to the business.

8......Grew to become the largest distributor in the country....( 15 State juristiction )

9......I Have the BEST Handicapping System for a league...

10.....I own and operate a Pro Billiard Tour...( BayState Invitational )

11.....Presently represent the best table manufacturer in the business...( ALL AMERICAN MADE )

Websites:

www.leatherpocket.com...This site will offer a lot of direction...
www.baystateinvitational
www.thegolfershut.com
www.pitchingcoach101.com

I look forward to talking with anyone that would like help in this industry...

Check out the top two sites....and let me know if I can be of any help.....

Chameleon · Oct 28, 2006

#9 is simply laughable.

Best of what.....the worst?

There is no good system. It is impossible.

Nineballggs · Oct 28, 2006

Chameleon said:
#9 is simply laughable.

Best of what.....the worst?

There is no good system. It is impossible.

Don't knock it untill you have tried it.......It is not as tough as you think....

First little tip....You can't let "the players" control the league or the handicapp....I have found a way to virtually eliminate "Sandbagging"..
Believe me it works. I ran a $ 2,000 mens money league...Handicapped...and it worked like a charm.....The league lasted approx. 8 years............

Chameleon · Oct 28, 2006

Nineballggs said:
Don't knock it untill you have tried it.......It is not as tough as you think....

First little tip....You can't let "the players" control the league or the handicapp....I have found a way to virtually eliminate "Sandbagging"..
Believe me it works. I ran a $ 2,000 mens money league...Handicapped...and it worked like a charm.....The league lasted approx. 8 years............

Riiiiiiight.

xidica · Nov 1, 2006

While I'm not trying to knock you here since I don't know you. Nobody I know is going to respect a "Here's why I'm awesome" list :

1. I'm really good at making these numbered lists. They're not bullet points!

2. I've made 9 posts!

3. My avatar is really cool!

Billiard room design isn't something I'd be contracting out. If you can't figure out a good layout/business plan for a pool room I don't think you should be in the business of starting one. It's a rough business.

Kevin Lindstrom · Nov 1, 2006

List of Rooms

I for one would love to see the list of the 18 rooms that you have been associated with opening. It would be a perfect way for me to see a living thriving resume of sorts.

Hambone · Nov 2, 2006

I'm not so sure about Golden West tables being "the best table manufacturer in the business" but the Kling sure is a nice looking table. Out of curiosity how much do they retail for?

Nineballggs · Nov 2, 2006

Hambone said:
I'm not so sure about Golden West tables being "the best table manufacturer in the business" but the Kling sure is a nice looking table. Out of curiosity how much do they retail for?

I do not think it is appropriate to use this venue for pricing...........Pricing depends on the following items........

Shipping costs...all tables are F.O.B. Portland, Oregon
Where you are ,,, in what part of the country
What size table are you interested in...??? 8 or 9 footer...

If you call me, I will be more than happy to give you whatever info you need.....Phone number is on the web site...G

manwon · Nov 15, 2006

Nineballggs said:
I do not think it is appropriate to use this venue for pricing...........Pricing depends on the following items........

Shipping costs...all tables are F.O.B. Portland, Oregon
Where you are ,,, in what part of the country
What size table are you interested in...??? 8 or 9 footer...

If you call me, I will be more than happy to give you whatever info you need.....Phone number is on the web site...G

Hey, I would also like to know the names of the rooms you have designed and setup.

I would also like to know the name of the league you started and ran by the rules you designed.

Please list the names and the locations of these rooms.

I would like to check you out!!!!

Another poster asked these same questions and you failed to answer him, I truly would like to hear your side, before I make up my mind about you.

However, not to answer these requests will also ruin your credibility just as quick.

Have a nice day, night, or morning whenever you ready this post.

PS. Do not try to blow smoke up the dog's butt!!! This Dog bites!!!!

Manwon

SlateHumper · Nov 15, 2006

I'm Great!

I'm great and so am I and if you ask me I will tell you how great I am but I won't tell you what you want to know but I will tell you that I'm great and that is all you need to know cuz I'm great and if you don't believe me just ask me and I will tell you how great I am.

Nineballggs · Nov 16, 2006

List of Rooms Etc.

Sorry Folks ....I have been away from my computer for a while.....
Here is a list of some of the rooms I have sold, designed, and installed....

4......Leather Pocket Rooms, NH. & Mass

Miller Place Billiards, Long Island, NY

The Green Room, Baltimore, Md.

Corner Pocket, Waterbury, Ct.

Antique Brass Rail, Newburgh, NY

Gallery Billiards, Newburgh, NY

2......In Peterborough, NH

1......In Worcester, Mass

Bank Shot Billiards, Hoboken, NJ

1......In Brunswick, NJ

1......In Holbrook, Mass

Fast Eddies Merrimack Billiards, Merrimack NH

There are others, but I believe this would answer your questions.

As Far as the Billiard League is concerned....I started The Queen City 9 Ball League in Manchester, NH........I believe it ran for some 8 or 9 years and was very successful......The handicapping system was quite unique....to say the least.........THERE WERE NO SANDBAGGERS......Like some of the leagues around today.............If you tried sandbagging....you "shot yourself in the foot"....You ultimately screwed yourself..................

While some of these rooms are still thriving........Some have closed up.....Just like any where in the country.....People opened Billiard Rooms....and for some strange reason they all thought they would become Millionaires.....People would walk into one of my rooms and say ...."Hey....this looks easy"....I think I'll do this.......HA.....with a capital H...........They quickly found out, it is not easy....and they actually needed to know something about the billiard industry.....DAAAAA what a concept....... They realized after investing their cash.....They had to do a very strange thing.........THEY HAD TO WORK>>>>>>>>>>. Sound like any of the rooms in your neck of the world......This business is Very Difficult...to make profitable.....without Poker Machines.....or serving miners, or drunks, with your liquor license..........I know I will get the question....."How come I don't have any more rooms".....Thats an easy one .......After 36 years in this industry....I decided....NO MORE liqour license.....NO More 24-7...hours.......Now I enjoy Golf, and riding my Harley.....Let someone else have ALL the fun.....chasing a $ 2.00 bottle of Bud.....or giving pool time away for $ 5 and you play all day..?????

Kevin Lindstrom · Nov 16, 2006

Thanks

I was thinking of having you design a pool room for me but after have just read your last post, I think I will open a barber shop instead.

Nineballggs · Nov 16, 2006

Kevin Lindstrom said:
I was thinking of having you design a pool room for me but after have just read your last post, I think I will open a barber shop instead.

Just look at the amount of rooms that have not made it....... The industry is at an all time low.......Oh, there are pockets of busy areas, but all in all the game is taking a major hit............. Just look at the rents for a large area of square footage........... Good luck with your barber shop....LoL.....!!!!!!

manwon · Nov 16, 2006

Nineballggs said:
Sorry Folks ....I have been away from my computer for a while.....
Here is a list of some of the rooms I have sold, designed, and installed....

4......Leather Pocket Rooms, NH. & Mass

Miller Place Billiards, Long Island, NY

The Green Room, Baltimore, Md.

Corner Pocket, Waterbury, Ct.

Antique Brass Rail, Newburgh, NY

Gallery Billiards, Newburgh, NY

2......In Peterborough, NH

1......In Worcester, Mass

Bank Shot Billiards, Hoboken, NJ

1......In Brunswick, NJ

1......In Holbrook, Mass

Fast Eddies Merrimack Billiards, Merrimack NH

There are others, but I believe this would answer your questions.

As Far as the Billiard League is concerned....I started The Queen City 9 Ball League in Manchester, NH........I believe it ran for some 8 or 9 years and was very successful......The handicapping system was quite unique....to say the least.........THERE WERE NO SANDBAGGERS......Like some of the leagues around today.............If you tried sandbagging....you "shot yourself in the foot"....You ultimately screwed yourself..................

While some of these rooms are still thriving........Some have closed up.....Just like any where in the country.....People opened Billiard Rooms....and for some strange reason they all thought they would become Millionaires.....People would walk into one of my rooms and say ...."Hey....this looks easy"....I think I'll do this.......HA.....with a capital H...........They quickly found out, it is not easy....and they actually needed to know something about the billiard industry.....DAAAAA what a concept....... They realized after investing their cash.....They had to do a very strange thing.........THEY HAD TO WORK>>>>>>>>>>. Sound like any of the rooms in your neck of the world......This business is Very Difficult...to make profitable.....without Poker Machines.....or serving miners, or drunks, with your liquor license..........I know I will get the question....."How come I don't have any more rooms".....Thats an easy one .......After 36 years in this industry....I decided....NO MORE liqour license.....NO More 24-7...hours.......Now I enjoy Golf, and riding my Harley.....Let someone else have ALL the fun.....chasing a $ 2.00 bottle of Bud.....or giving pool time away for $ 5 and you play all day..?????
It is my opinion....The billiard game is dead....and I do not see it ever coming back..........Not like it used to be........Pool Players are like barbers.....I believe they are a dying breed.........But then again....thats just my opinion.............

Good morning Gary, if these are your true feelings, why would you start this post in the first place.

You appear to be a intelligent fellow, that knows what he is talking about. The only thing I do not understand, is if you truly feel this way how can you offer your services to anyone.

It appears to me that you have no confidences in this industry, or in your ability to design a Billiard Room that can make money, because as you said the game is dead, and all people do is give time away for $5 a day.

Strange thread Gary, but have a nice day, and try not to be so negative, you may have found yourself a sucker that would have let you design his / her room right here on AZ, praise the lord your true feelings came out before it was to late him / her.

Manwon

Nineballggs · Nov 16, 2006

manwon said:
Good morning Gary, if these are your true feelings, why would you start this post in the first place.

You appear to be a intelligent fellow, that knows what he is talking about. The only thing I do not understand, is if you truly feel this way how can you offer your services to anyone.

It appears to me that you have no confidences in this industry, or in your ability to design a Billiard Room that can make money, because as you said the game is dead, and all people do is give time away for $5 a day.

Strange thread Gary, but have a nice day, and try not to be so negative, you may have found yourself a sucker that would have let you design his / her room right here on AZ, praise the lord your true feelings came out before it was to late him / her.

Manwon

Thanks for your input........I originally posted this in response to "Big Daddy's..." I want to add table sales in my poolroom"....
You see...I too started in the poolroom business.....and with my Executive Sales Background ...I wanted to sell tables out of my billiard room.....First I became an "Agent" for a major manufacturer.( nobody would give you a dealership back then)....Then I became a Dealer.....Then I became their largest Distributor on the planet...... So ....I am very comfortable with the idea of adding sales to an upscale billiard room......I am not negative ....just truthfull....I have made a wonderfull living in this industry....and I have enjoyed every minute of it......You ended your response with a very telling phrase...( Praise The Lord)....I am a Christian, and I do not knowingly try to mis-lead anyone into this or any other business. For the right person.....this can be a very rewarding way to make a living.....To someone just trying to make a killing....or a lot of money....There are too many other ways of investing your money....Would I do it again NOW...........NO.......I have seen this happen no less than 3 times in my carreer....I have seen it run in 20 year spurts.........It is on an all time low now............Just look around the country....and see the rooms closing.........If you are not going to be a "Dave & Busters" this is not the time to go for it....................
You see.....That's just it ....I am not trying to sell anyone anything....You are right ....I know what I am talking about....I am merely offering ....My Services....to those who want them................
Anyone who knows this industry will tell you....Pool Players DO NOT support this industry....They never have.....You need Alcohol....Food .....Arcades....something to pay your rent.....Unfortunately....Too many operations resort to Drug Pushing..Selling Alcohol to people who are clearly Drunk....or to minors.......Poker Machines....or someway to make what I call "Dirty Money"

Thanks again for your input.............

issycue · Nov 21, 2006

Perhaps the market/industry requires some updating... dogs get old, people get bored, etc.etc. Haven't the bowling alleys accross the country re-invented themselves into profitability? Maybe alcohol/pool is not the way to go, unless your first priority is booze. New rules, new games, new styles of play? My question, have you come accross a room that has tried something new? Have any of your clients explored different business plans? And, what is the marketplace for rooms these days--families? drinkers? students? retirees? that's the kind of stuff I wouldn't mind reading about.

issycue · Nov 21, 2006

Nineballggs said:
Thanks for your input........I originally posted this in response to "Big Daddy's..." I want to add table sales in my poolroom"....
You see...I too started in the poolroom business.....and with my Executive Sales Background ...I wanted to sell tables out of my billiard room.....First I became an "Agent" for a major manufacturer.( nobody would give you a dealership back then)....Then I became a Dealer.....Then I became their largest Distributor on the planet...... So ....I am very comfortable with the idea of adding sales to an upscale billiard room......I am not negative ....just truthfull....I have made a wonderfull living in this industry....and I have enjoyed every minute of it......You ended your response with a very telling phrase...( Praise The Lord)....I am a Christian, and I do not try knowingly try to mis-lead anyone into this or any other business. For the right person.....this can be a very rewarding way to make a living.....To someone just trying to make a killing....or a lot of money....There are too many other ways of investing your money....Would I do it again NOW...........NO.......I have seen this happen no less than 3 times in my carreer....I have seen it run in 20 year spurts.........It is on an all time low now............Just look around the country....and see the rooms closing.........If you are not going to be a "Dave & Busters" this is not the time to go for it....................
You see.....That's just it ....I am not trying to sell anyone anything....You are right ....I know what I am talking about....I am merely offering ....My Services....to those who want them................
Anyone who knows this industry will tell you....Pool Players DO NOT support this industry....They never have.....You need Alcohol....Food .....Arcades....something to pay your rent.....Unfortunately....Too many operations resort to Drug Pushing..Selling Alcohol to people who are clearly Drunk....or to minors.......Poker Machines....or someway to make what I call "Dirty Money"

Thanks again for your input.............

And, just another quick note... and no disrespect intended here... but if you have been so successful in the past, and seemingly continue to prosper in the industry, why not take the time now to give back to it? You say pool players do not support this industry. Yet I wonder, who paid your paycheck over the years? Alcoholics? the drug addicts? Crack dealers? the gamblers? I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you're not participating here to become part of a solution, then you are ultimately only part of the problem. You have the know-how, the resources, and the time (if the business is at an all time low)...your time is now, to make a difference, eh? make it better...

Nineballggs · Nov 30, 2006

Thank you for your reply...ISSYCUE.....Good Reading......I would invite you to go to my web site www.leatherpocket.com.....and click on The Controversial Corner.....Click on the 2006 season ( green )....and read my last article. You see, what you suggest sounds good....but just to give you an update in the Northeast.....There used to be a bowling alley in almost every town....there is now one.....and making no money... To get a better grip on my view....The problem is who is going to pay the rent and utilities on the facility you need to house a decent size room today...The housing market has gone the same way as this industry....You can't get a builder to build you a "ranch" anymore....."Ranch....they say....Shoot I am too busy building $ 800,000 houses". So where did the "Ranch" business go..???? The only facility left in this region has 40 some odd tables....and is a beautiful upscale room....It has been rated one of the top 5 rooms in the country. It is huge....now lets say you "Stole" the place for $5 a foot...Gross.....no triple net lease......Do you know what the rent is on a space with say 15,000 sq.ft. Try $75,000 per year...or $6,250 per month...and that is just THE RENT.....Keep in mind you would not want the place you get for $5 per foot.....Rents today are more like $10 to $20 per foot...and they want triple net.....thats usually another $2-$3 per foot..........Do the math.....There is not a billiard room around that can pay that "Nut"....I am talking about a billiard Room.....NOT a Dave & Busters.....That is not a Billiard Room.....It is an entertainment center....In fact their pool business is probably the smallest part of their revenue.... So, while I am not trying to sound negative....just realistic after doing it some 18 times.....Times have changed.....There is too much for people to do....and most people can't keep up with themselves...they are moving so fast ......If this business was doing so great or could rebound......Why are the ones left giving table time away...or offering fantastic deals all day.... Bottom Line.....If there was a market for the product.......You would see me right smack dab in the middle..... History shows.....it revolves in a 20 year cycle....It is on its way down...and has not hit bottom yet...
Now....If you find a first class location....not in some alley....or up three flights .....I mean a pristene location, NO Poles.....Does not need To have $100,000 renovation....and you can rent that space for $2.50 per foot GROSS......Now you have my attention.
See if you follow this ....This is a real scenario......
There is a room in Boston, that I have know for 35 years....The original owner...Jimmy Carass' cousin....Had it and paid $300 per month rent for 6000 sq. ft. OR $ .60 per foot ...Thats 60 cents.!!!!! That room today at a steal of $5 per foot would be $30,000 RENT....$30K versus $3,600 per year...... The tables Each in the first scenario cost....$2 of floor space per month....Today those same tables would cost $18 per month to take up the exact same space.....Any wonder why billiard rooms are dropping like flies......You see this is why I said ...." This game was never meant to be upscale" ....It can not afford the rent..............There are VERY few, if any Chevy Dealers in Orange County Ca. They too can't afford the rent.

Thank you for your input, I appreciate your comments......

tigerallenyim · Nov 30, 2006

Nineballggs said:
Anyone who knows this industry will tell you....Pool Players DO NOT support this industry....They never have.....You need Alcohol....Food .....Arcades....something to pay your rent.....Unfortunately....Too many operations resort to Drug Pushing..Selling Alcohol to people who are clearly Drunk....or to minors.......Poker Machines....or someway to make what I call "Dirty Money"

Well I have to admit that most pool halls i have experienced were more geared toward entertainment. But I am certain there are still poolhalls that are geared just towards pool/billiards. It's funny, I think most pool halls should be something like that. Gearing towards the educatino of pool/billiards. I think of school.... If the room is not screaming education/learning... forget it! Fortunately for me, I live near a nice pool hall where others help, and vice versa. I don't much about the history of billiard halls, but I believe there is a reason for what it is now.

I believe that the industry maybe going in a different direction. Whether it evolves to something else again (in order to attract/thrive others), who knows. But I guess if we have some perserverance, we might just like the outcome.

My 2 cents.

tigerallenyim · Nov 30, 2006

Nineballggs said:
See if you follow this ....This is a real scenario......
There is a room in Boston, that I have know for 35 years....The original owner...Jimmy Carass' cousin....Had it and paid $300 per month rent for 6000 sq. ft. OR $ .60 per foot ...Thats 60 cents.!!!!! That room today at a steal of $5 per foot would be $30,000 RENT....$30K versus $3,600 per year...... The tables Each in the first scenario cost....$2 of floor space per month....Today those same tables would cost $18 per month to take up the exact same space.....Any wonder why billiard rooms are dropping like flies......You see this is why I said ...." This game was never meant to be upscale" ....It can not afford the rent..............There are VERY few, if any Chevy Dealers in Orange County Ca. They too can't afford the rent.

I have to agree. But i am certain there is a solution. Any engineers out there? I guess when space was limited in offices, engineers came up with cubicles. And no, a pool table can't fit in a cubicle. But I think we all get the idea. I can take a hack at it tho. I do think outside the box, with Architectual skillz... along with a host of others.... but i rather not say...

Billiard Room Design & Ownership

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