HIS NAME IS MATT VRAAGH OR SOMETHING WITH THOSE LETTERS FROM PETERBOROUGH !!! HE JUST ROBBED THE TOURNAMENT AT ON CUE BILLIARDS AND GOT OVER 800$ WITH THE CALCUTTA LAST SAT WITHOUT A CHALLENGE FROM ANYBODY !!! FIRST OF ALL GEORGE HAD NO PROOF THAT HE WAS A 3 HANDICAP IN CPA AND HE JUST TOOK HIS WORD FOR IT !!! BIG MISTAKE !!! I'LL BET THAT IF U CHECK cpasouthont.com U'LL PROBABLY FIND HIM AS A 5 HANDICAP AT LEAST !!! HE PLAYS OUT OF PETRINAS I HEARD AND SOMEBODY SHOULD ASK FRANK KAKOUROS WHAT HIS REAL HANDICAP IS !!! HE SHOULD KNOW !!! SO ALL U GUYS KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN FOR THIS GUY MATT AND DON'T BELIEVE A WORD HE SAYS !!! GEORGE, YA GOTTA DO YOUR HOMEWORK MAN !!! OTHERWISE THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN !!! :angry:
Sandbaggin thief !!!
- Thread starter nabeel
- Start date
I know Matt personally. He's a pretty nice kid from what I've known. I'm fairly sure his last name is Wager.
I'm not sure of the handicapping system, so I'm not aware of what Matt's rating should be....but Matt isn't exactly a sharpshooter. In a recreational league, he'd rank somewhere in the top 15%-20% range. No idea what that translates to in CPA ratings.
In 9 ball, he'd be lucky to break and run one rack in a long race. 8 ball is much easier IMO, so maybe he'd run the odd rack. If he played better than this, then he must have been on his game that day. A 3 sounds pretty ridiculous though.
I'm not sure of the handicapping system, so I'm not aware of what Matt's rating should be....but Matt isn't exactly a sharpshooter. In a recreational league, he'd rank somewhere in the top 15%-20% range. No idea what that translates to in CPA ratings.
In 9 ball, he'd be lucky to break and run one rack in a long race. 8 ball is much easier IMO, so maybe he'd run the odd rack. If he played better than this, then he must have been on his game that day. A 3 sounds pretty ridiculous though.
Last edited:
I don't post on sites but I must on this one. I am a 7 in cpa and a 6 in tap. with that said I was playing some pretty good pool that day and when i played Matt I had waited about 2-2.5 hrs and my match with matt only lasted about 15 minutes. He too had been waiting that long. This is how it went. I broke dry,he shot a few shots and missed and then I ran out. I broke dry again and he ran the table. he broke dry and i ran the table. then I broke and ran all the way to the 8 ball where I had to bank it and missed it. He potted 4 balls and then purposely missed a ball. I tried a shot in the corner where i had to pot his ball in and the 8 bobble in the pocket and he ran the last 2 balls and then the 8.
Matt was not talking to anyone except his crew. didn't practise until the end of the night. he would just win his match and sit down until he was called up again. The only other lost I had was against Mel who crushed me 5-2.
Before I even played MATT there were already 2 people that complained about his handicap and i asked that if I had a ref watch my match with matt and if the ref deemed him not to be his handicap then he should loose the match and have his skill level adjusted or atleast have him go to the next round with the proper skill level and i was told that it was not possible to change his level. Matt played just as well as any other strong 6 in league play that I have ever played against. We all complain when we see a 3 that shoots like a 5, Just imagine a 3 that is really a 6.Alot of other players that played hard should have won this tournament. NOT MATT. All in all I would like to thank George for setting this tournament up, richard for having us at his pool hall and all the shooters that played and tried their best and made this tournament succesful. I'd like to thank everyone except for Matt. But then again why would he care.... he's the one that's laughing at us with about a $1000 in his pocket....
Matt was not talking to anyone except his crew. didn't practise until the end of the night. he would just win his match and sit down until he was called up again. The only other lost I had was against Mel who crushed me 5-2.
Before I even played MATT there were already 2 people that complained about his handicap and i asked that if I had a ref watch my match with matt and if the ref deemed him not to be his handicap then he should loose the match and have his skill level adjusted or atleast have him go to the next round with the proper skill level and i was told that it was not possible to change his level. Matt played just as well as any other strong 6 in league play that I have ever played against. We all complain when we see a 3 that shoots like a 5, Just imagine a 3 that is really a 6.Alot of other players that played hard should have won this tournament. NOT MATT. All in all I would like to thank George for setting this tournament up, richard for having us at his pool hall and all the shooters that played and tried their best and made this tournament succesful. I'd like to thank everyone except for Matt. But then again why would he care.... he's the one that's laughing at us with about a $1000 in his pocket....
I agree if a guy comes in and offers himself at a 3 and no one has a clue about the guy,he must play at a higher handicap,and if he doesn't like it ,oh well!It's better to disappoint 1 player than to hurt the rest of the field.Granted I like George and think he a good guy,but I know he's smarter than that.Someone should of stepped in right away and not let it go on as long as it did.But the flipside to this story is,can the guy not have a good day without being tortured for it?If they do find out he plays at a 6 then the guys a bird who deserves a verbal lashing and should not be welcomed back to any events in the future!Take Care ( P.S George,I still like your haircut).
I wish I could wipe it off with the back hand of that cue he's got in his hand. Theres nothing wrong with getting into a tournament a maybe one handicap lower. But in a league like the CPA where u have to be registered and all that. I don't see a reason for it.
okay, I do not know anyone involved with this, but I have run and played many tournaments.
I think the fault is with the administration though. A guy walks in and says he is a 3 and nobody questions it? This is a registered system, how does that happen? No proof was asked for or given?
Just make a rule that it is only open to members with proof of handicap! If you don't have any proof and say you are a 3, then you can play- as a 6!!! Watch how fast a REAL 3 will come up with some proof! I am sure all it would have taken was a phone call or a login on a website to clear up some confusion. I can see why a busy tournamnet director did not have time to do it, and it is not his responsibility to do so. That is why you put the burden back on the player. Either they offer up the proof, OR they risk having to play at a much higher handicap. Their choice!
Jw
I think the fault is with the administration though. A guy walks in and says he is a 3 and nobody questions it? This is a registered system, how does that happen? No proof was asked for or given?
Just make a rule that it is only open to members with proof of handicap! If you don't have any proof and say you are a 3, then you can play- as a 6!!! Watch how fast a REAL 3 will come up with some proof! I am sure all it would have taken was a phone call or a login on a website to clear up some confusion. I can see why a busy tournamnet director did not have time to do it, and it is not his responsibility to do so. That is why you put the burden back on the player. Either they offer up the proof, OR they risk having to play at a much higher handicap. Their choice!
Jw
Responding to thread regarding Matt
I know from personal experience that Matt bounces back and forth from a 3 to a 4 in the CPA, more of a 4 though. George asked Matt what he was ranked in the CPA at the time, he responded correctly with his present handicap. It was not the skill level of Matt which was the problem, the problem was that the 6's and 7's were shooting like 4's and 5's(maybe they cant handle 9 footers, lol). I was watching Matt's games and he was getting 5 to 6 shots a game on average. Just because so called 6's and 7's were not shooting like they should, they get upset. Stop complaining and shoot better next time and you wont have this worry. Matt's handicap was the only one not in question up there, there were others. If one of those guys won the tournament they would be complaining about them as well, its an inperfect system. By the way, George you ran a great tournament and I hope you more success in the future.
I know from personal experience that Matt bounces back and forth from a 3 to a 4 in the CPA, more of a 4 though. George asked Matt what he was ranked in the CPA at the time, he responded correctly with his present handicap. It was not the skill level of Matt which was the problem, the problem was that the 6's and 7's were shooting like 4's and 5's(maybe they cant handle 9 footers, lol). I was watching Matt's games and he was getting 5 to 6 shots a game on average. Just because so called 6's and 7's were not shooting like they should, they get upset. Stop complaining and shoot better next time and you wont have this worry. Matt's handicap was the only one not in question up there, there were others. If one of those guys won the tournament they would be complaining about them as well, its an inperfect system. By the way, George you ran a great tournament and I hope you more success in the future.
My 2 cent,
I don't know Matt. I'm not familiar with this tournament. I AM familiar with the APA. After spending almost 15 years in the APA I can say that most of the fault here is with the system. The APA's ranking system moves slowly. Anyone who started in the APA knows that those first few weeks your rank is all over the place. Once a player is established the system uses the best 10 scores over 20 weeks. Depending on who is scoring matches it can further skew the problem.
In 1990 I played as a skill level 5 and bounced between a 5 and a 6. I decided to play in my first APA tournament and ended up winning. I too won my calcutta and the 1st prize money. I too was down to a skill level 5 when I entered the tournament and I too was branded a sandbagger. I learned after many years of the APA that it is the nature of the league. When a skill level 7 looses to a 4 then it MUST be sandbagging. I am now a 7 in the APA. I have played many matches against skill level 3 and 4 players that have ran a good deal. I still remind myself that this is a game. If I don't like the rules of the league or the handicap system then I should direct my discontent at the system and NOT at the player. Trashing someone who is coming through the ranks does nothing for the game that we all love. Talk to the league operator or the tournament director about the situation. If the skill level is correct then all you can do is decide if you want to continue to play under those circumstances.
-Doug
I don't know Matt. I'm not familiar with this tournament. I AM familiar with the APA. After spending almost 15 years in the APA I can say that most of the fault here is with the system. The APA's ranking system moves slowly. Anyone who started in the APA knows that those first few weeks your rank is all over the place. Once a player is established the system uses the best 10 scores over 20 weeks. Depending on who is scoring matches it can further skew the problem.
In 1990 I played as a skill level 5 and bounced between a 5 and a 6. I decided to play in my first APA tournament and ended up winning. I too won my calcutta and the 1st prize money. I too was down to a skill level 5 when I entered the tournament and I too was branded a sandbagger. I learned after many years of the APA that it is the nature of the league. When a skill level 7 looses to a 4 then it MUST be sandbagging. I am now a 7 in the APA. I have played many matches against skill level 3 and 4 players that have ran a good deal. I still remind myself that this is a game. If I don't like the rules of the league or the handicap system then I should direct my discontent at the system and NOT at the player. Trashing someone who is coming through the ranks does nothing for the game that we all love. Talk to the league operator or the tournament director about the situation. If the skill level is correct then all you can do is decide if you want to continue to play under those circumstances.
-Doug
chokeacola
Registered
Fair handicap ?
U KIDDIN ME ? WHAT WAS UR END GALLYMAN ? HOW MUCH DID U PAID 2 SAY THAT ? :scratchhead:
U KIDDIN ME ? WHAT WAS UR END GALLYMAN ? HOW MUCH DID U PAID 2 SAY THAT ? :scratchhead:
My Experience
The question that I have, is if this Matt guy is actually rated on this same scale in some other league and if he KNEW that they were rating him lower than he should have been.
I think that it may be hard to judge your number level if you don't play in a league that rates people like that.
My experience was that an APA 5 player invited me to play in a 8-ball tournament. When I got there, the guy wasn't there yet. They asked me my rating and I told them that I'm a little better than my friend that is a 5. The TD told me that he would start me as a 5 but that he would watch me play and raise me mid-tournament depending on how I play and how much I beat the other players by in my matches. So in mid-tournament, he raised be to a 6, but I ended-up winning the tournament anyway.
The next time that I played in that tournament, I played as a 6 the entire time and won again (by beating a 7-level player 4-3 in the finals). I had to go to 4 games and he had to go to 5 games. So they told me the next time that I play, that I would be a 7.
Just recently I played again as a 7. I beat a 5-level player 5-0 my first match -- then got a bye -- and played another 7-rated player and lost 2-5. Now granted, I played really bad in this last match -- so I concluded that I probably SHOULD be a 7.
Did I purposely under-rank myself to win = NO. I was willing to let them raise my rating if THEY thought that I was better in the middle on the tournament -- because I thought that was fair and I really didn't know what rating that I should be.
So I think that my example is another possible way to look at this type of thing....
The question that I have, is if this Matt guy is actually rated on this same scale in some other league and if he KNEW that they were rating him lower than he should have been.
I think that it may be hard to judge your number level if you don't play in a league that rates people like that.
My experience was that an APA 5 player invited me to play in a 8-ball tournament. When I got there, the guy wasn't there yet. They asked me my rating and I told them that I'm a little better than my friend that is a 5. The TD told me that he would start me as a 5 but that he would watch me play and raise me mid-tournament depending on how I play and how much I beat the other players by in my matches. So in mid-tournament, he raised be to a 6, but I ended-up winning the tournament anyway.
The next time that I played in that tournament, I played as a 6 the entire time and won again (by beating a 7-level player 4-3 in the finals). I had to go to 4 games and he had to go to 5 games. So they told me the next time that I play, that I would be a 7.
Just recently I played again as a 7. I beat a 5-level player 5-0 my first match -- then got a bye -- and played another 7-rated player and lost 2-5. Now granted, I played really bad in this last match -- so I concluded that I probably SHOULD be a 7.
Did I purposely under-rank myself to win = NO. I was willing to let them raise my rating if THEY thought that I was better in the middle on the tournament -- because I thought that was fair and I really didn't know what rating that I should be.
So I think that my example is another possible way to look at this type of thing....
I welcome Matt to come to my room and play me as a 4. I LOVE playing sandbaggers!
I'll be playing at my current CPA/TAP handicap as a 6.
5-3 for the cash! Tell him to bring that $800 with him.
Hope to see you both soon!
Give me a break. Gallyman gives a little insight to how 6's and 7's were playing and you accuse him getting paid to make that comment to support why this guy won. Did you not read..... this guy was getting 6 to 7 times to a table, obviously the higher ranked guys were shooting poorly.
I just played a tourney on the weekend ( as a 7) and got knocked to the B side by a 4 handicap, and guess what, she must have got to the table at least 4 or 5 times cause I was missing shots like there was no tommorow. I can accept the fact that some days, it's just not meant to be. Happens all the time
By the way, with only 4 posts made, hope your not gonna be one of those guys that wants to bash everyones comments regardless whether they are good , bad, or indifferent. We don;t need comments like yours
Walter
9 ball is a different animal Walter, they were playing 8 ball.
Anita is a good player, I expect to see her move up to a 5.
I also played horribly in the London tournament and my handicap is going to be moved to minus 309, so if I can rack without poking my eye out, I win automatically.
Hi there Galleyman.... I am sure you have taken the time to read my previous thread on how I shot horrible against Matt......lol. I described my match against matt exactly how it went. If I did not shoot like a 6 or 7, can you please let me know how I should have shot????? I am not what you call a super 7. I am a mid level 6 in tap that was shooting great. I am a bottom end 7 in cpa. I break and run here and there, i play save and all that. So please lend me your expertice on this matter. ( and if you say " well you should have just broke and ran every game" you clearly are not reading my posts).
I'll give you an example of this girl named elaine that was a 2 in the tournament. I personally know her and she is a 2. She had a great day . she won her first match against a 5 ( whish was not shooting to his level), lost her 2 nd match to a 6, then won her first match on the b side (against a 4) and then lost to a 7. No one complained about her level because she wasn't running table. she was playing smart. if the person left her a shot she would try to play two way shots. if she made it great if not she would try to leave it hard. she made alot of mistakes, got lucky a few times, she played great for her skill level and I was very proud of her. the guys that lost to her did not complain of her handicap. they complained that they could not beleive they lost to her and how lucky she was getting. see the difference GALLEYMAN. The tournament was not filled with cry babies. it ws filled with great players in all skill level.by the way elaine is a registered 2 in tap and a 3 in cpa. she has never broke and ran in her life. she wins games because the other person scratches on the 8 or because there are about 7-8 innings already in the game. But galleyman please let me know how else I should have played, as well as all the other 6's and 7's. I'm sure that you must be a 6 or 7 yourself. for you seem to have such knowledge on how we should be playing the game.
I'll give you an example of this girl named elaine that was a 2 in the tournament. I personally know her and she is a 2. She had a great day . she won her first match against a 5 ( whish was not shooting to his level), lost her 2 nd match to a 6, then won her first match on the b side (against a 4) and then lost to a 7. No one complained about her level because she wasn't running table. she was playing smart. if the person left her a shot she would try to play two way shots. if she made it great if not she would try to leave it hard. she made alot of mistakes, got lucky a few times, she played great for her skill level and I was very proud of her. the guys that lost to her did not complain of her handicap. they complained that they could not beleive they lost to her and how lucky she was getting. see the difference GALLEYMAN. The tournament was not filled with cry babies. it ws filled with great players in all skill level.by the way elaine is a registered 2 in tap and a 3 in cpa. she has never broke and ran in her life. she wins games because the other person scratches on the 8 or because there are about 7-8 innings already in the game. But galleyman please let me know how else I should have played, as well as all the other 6's and 7's. I'm sure that you must be a 6 or 7 yourself. for you seem to have such knowledge on how we should be playing the game.
chokeacola
Registered
Obveisly ?
how ? were u there ? i didn't think so ! so how would u know if he was gettin 5 to 6 shots @ the table or not ? how would u know if the 6's and 7's were playin poorly ? because of what some dip@#$t buddy of his said well he was there ? how do u know if the 6's and 7's didn't try their guts out and still there was absolutely NOTHING they could do about it because Matt played just as smart as them ? seems like he knows all the shots ! since u were not there, what the hell would u know about it anyhow ? MATT, I DON'T KNOW HOW U SLEEP AT NIGHT, BUT U OTTA BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF !!! AND NOW "(FINALLY)" THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT UR A TRUE SANDBAGGER !!! and thats all i got 2 say about that !!! ps: Dan, trust me ! 5 to 3 race ur in REAL TOUGH with that guy !!! this is for Cuetips by the way
how ? were u there ? i didn't think so ! so how would u know if he was gettin 5 to 6 shots @ the table or not ? how would u know if the 6's and 7's were playin poorly ? because of what some dip@#$t buddy of his said well he was there ? how do u know if the 6's and 7's didn't try their guts out and still there was absolutely NOTHING they could do about it because Matt played just as smart as them ? seems like he knows all the shots ! since u were not there, what the hell would u know about it anyhow ? MATT, I DON'T KNOW HOW U SLEEP AT NIGHT, BUT U OTTA BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF !!! AND NOW "(FINALLY)" THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT UR A TRUE SANDBAGGER !!! and thats all i got 2 say about that !!! ps: Dan, trust me ! 5 to 3 race ur in REAL TOUGH with that guy !!! this is for Cuetips by the way
Last edited:
how ? were u there ? i didn't think so ! so how would u know if he was gettin 5 to 6 shots @ the table or not ? how would u know if the 6's and 7's were playin poorly ? because of what some dip@#$t buddy of his said well he was there ? how do u know if the 6's and 7's didn't try their guts out and still there was absolutely NOTHING they could do about it because Matt played just as smart as them ? seems like he knows all the shots ! since u were not there, what the hell would u know about it anyhow ? MATT, I DON'T KNOW HOW U SLEEP AT NIGHT, BUT U OTTA BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF !!! AND NOW "(FINALLY)" THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT UR A TRUE SANDBAGGER !!! and thats all i got 2 say about that !!! ps: Dan, trust me ! 5 to 3 race ur in REAL TOUGH with that guy !!! this is for Cuetips by the way
Who are you?
This reminds me of someone........