The road to recovery day 1

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white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Day 4 results

Last nights sets averaged 12 games each so decided play minimum 1 race to 13 daily.
That would have me playing up to 25 games a day, 175 a week, potentially hitting 1000 shots weekly.
Me 13. Ghost 10
Figuring out break squatting cue ball center table. Only had 2 times balks bunched up. Broke out both. Missed 2 bank shots. Scratched once tough shot.
Really starting feel my stroke, speed.
Missed one tough cut shot. Other losses were stupid misses on balls I make 10 out of 10.

Real happy. I like me maybe never losing to ghost again.
But don’t fool yourself til u try it.
Playing the ghost daily is harder than I thought
A lot of things can go wrong.

I challenge one other person to join me.

Daily race 13. BIH after break. No jump shots, no masse shots
6 ball on bar box.
 
W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just celebrated my determination to play again

By dropping 800 hundo on a brand new cue for me!
 
W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thx for weighing in. Stay with it

Jimmorrison said:
Not trying to hijack your thread, just going to ride along for a while. Beautiful weather yesterday, had a long day outside. Got to the table late, and a little beat. Did not go well, very frustrating. Raining today, got to table right away. Warmed up, focused, jumped out to big lead. Barely made it, won 7-6. Still surprised it was this hard, seems like it should be easy. In my area, bar box 8ball is all there is, so it's what I play. Since I got my table, I have been playing 8ball against myself a lot. In six weeks, my runouts have gone up. That's why I thought the 6ball ghost would be easy. A few months ago, Tin Man posted that playing 8ball against yourself was the worst way to improve. He didn't say why and I didn't ask. I think the last four days have given me some insight as to why. I'm going to play rotation for a month straight, and see how that goes. Good luck to you Ray, and once again, thanks for starting this thread.
Click to expand...

Great to hear
 
W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Day 5 -PUKE...LOST 13 7

Jumped out early 5 2. Started trying do too much with break. Balls were separating , then bunching back up. Also, my control on draw shots is TERRIBLE. Usually draw it too much. Caused me about 5 or 6 bank shots tonight. Missed them all. This table banks funny but no excuse. Drill on draw shots will be my first drill. Seemed like I had too much pressure on myself after ghost got even. Got stuck on 7. Lost 8 straight.
Neck is hurting too bad. Went bought icy hot. Gonna be in my bag.
Also need some good shoes to play in. Feet / legs hurt too much.
Gonna continue, adding drills on weekends, plus gonna learn 1 one pocket shot a week from Tom Wirth book.

I will tell you this. Playing the ghost is not easy. Try it. Let me know.
Thx following/supporting!
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
raycharlesbrown said:
Jumped out early 5 2. Started trying do too much with break. Balls were separating , then bunching back up. Also, my control on draw shots is TERRIBLE. Usually draw it too much. Caused me about 5 or 6 bank shots tonight. Missed them all. This table banks funny but no excuse. Drill on draw shots will be my first drill. Seemed like I had too much pressure on myself after ghost got even. Got stuck on 7. Lost 8 straight.
Neck is hurting too bad. Went bought icy hot. Gonna be in my bag.
Also need some good shoes to play in. Feet / legs hurt too much.
Gonna continue, adding drills on weekends, plus gonna learn 1 one pocket shot a week from Tom Wirth book.

I will tell you this. Playing the ghost is not easy. Try it. Let me know.
Thx following/supporting!
Click to expand...

Now you're putting the work in and look at your results in only a few days. Pretty soon you'll have to start playing the 9-Ball Ghost, because Six Ball will seem too easy.

Lassiter once said that your legs tire faster as you get older and that was the main reason a pool player's game declines, not poor eyesight.

Keep up the good work. It's getting to be fun now, isn't it.
 
W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everything you said is SPOT ON!

jay helfert said:
Now you're putting the work in and look at your results in only a few days. Pretty soon you'll have to start playing the 9-Ball Ghost, because Six Ball will seem too easy.

Lassiter once said that your legs tire faster as you get older and that was the main reason a pool player's game declines, not poor eyesight.

Keep up the good work. It's getting to be fun now, isn't it.
Click to expand...

Thx for your support. I see others dropping out on me. I’m NOT quitting.
See next post
 
W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Day 6-my hardest day-it was a WAR!

Sounds silly but true.
Got behind bad early.
Had to grind hard to fight back.
Played from behind til end.

Me 13————-ghost 10
Thoughts.
Playing the ghost is HARD-if you think it ain’t try it.
It hit me last night.this morning.
You have to play PERFECT POOL - SCORING 1.000
You can not make even one mistake or u lose. Think about that minute.
You can’t play safe. You can’t hope your opponent misses.

Tonight.
Break working-didn’t make many balls, but only bunched up 3 times-successful breakouts 2 out of the 3.
I fought back. I didn’t quit. I wanted to win bad.
Only had shoot one long rail bank -made it.
Realized tonight that I am rarely shooting from the rail or jacked up.
I’m keeping the cue ball in the middle of the table.

Challenges-focus on easy shots. Still missing short easy shots for no reason other than lack of focus.
Touch of inside-ONLY GOOD when u need it. Sometimes u need that outside spin it in deal for confidence or position.
Still struggling with my style/pressure thing.
I want to let my stroke loose and trust myself, but sometimes I shoot way too tentatively being afraid of what might happen if I don’t.
I’ll figure it out.

Jay you were right. It’s ONLY day 6 after 30 years away. My confidence level is building. There is really no telling how good I could play I when I have done this for a whole year.

Thx for taking this ride with me. I got HOT. broke out in a sweat. Playing like this is HARD mentally and physically-
Bed!
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just saw your thread Ray.

If you have a way of recording your sets and posting them, it would be a really good way for some to give you advice.

BTW, seeing yourself playing on video is an eye opener for most people. You will see things you didn't even know you do.

Recording is a fantastic way of improving your game. Probably 2nd best way to improve other than LESSONS from the RIGHT instructor.

I'll be keeping an eye on the thread for pics of your new cue and HOPEFULLY a video.

Also, by making a video you will have something to compare future videos to.

Videos are a win/win regardless if you show them to anyone or not.

Good luck sir.

Jeff
 
W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Day 7-h’mmmmm. Need input

Lost 13 to 7
Good things:
Break excellent-20 racks - only made a few on break, but squatted cue ball every time but once-more important NEVER had any 2 balls close touching.
Draw shot better, but not good.

Bad things-EVERY shot I missed in 13 losses was a shot I would shoot all day for 100 bucks-literally like a 2 ft. Shot even a ball setting near the hole.

What is that? Concentration????

Have learned this. All my back / legs can take is about 20 racks. And on new shoes today.

Problem areas that are consistent-hung between shooting tentative for precision and letting my stroke flow which feels better, but costs me some control issues.

I’m off work on vacation til June 1-gonna play more-I will be doing video/throwing out on YouTube with links -just have learn how.

I have iPad Pro

Why am I missing these shots I make 10 out of 10 if you just laid them out?

Thx guys.
 
W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Will figure this video thing out in next 2 days

jrctherake said:
Just saw your thread Ray.

If you have a way of recording your sets and posting them, it would be a really good way for some to give you advice.

BTW, seeing yourself playing on video is an eye opener for most people. You will see things you didn't even know you do.

Recording is a fantastic way of improving your game. Probably 2nd best way to improve other than LESSONS from the RIGHT instructor.

I'll be keeping an eye on the thread for pics of your new cue and HOPEFULLY a video.

Also, by making a video you will have something to compare future videos to.

Videos are a win/win regardless if you show them to anyone or not.

Good luck sir.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Videos coming by weekend thx
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
raycharlesbrown said:
Lost 13 to 7
Good things:
Break excellent-20 racks - only made a few on break, but squatted cue ball every time but once-more important NEVER had any 2 balls close touching.
Draw shot better, but not good.

Bad things-EVERY shot I missed in 13 losses was a shot I would shoot all day for 100 bucks-literally like a 2 ft. Shot even a ball setting near the hole.

What is that? Concentration????

Have learned this. All my back / legs can take is about 20 racks. And on new shoes today.

Problem areas that are consistent-hung between shooting tentative for precision and letting my stroke flow which feels better, but costs me some control issues.

I’m off work on vacation til June 1-gonna play more-I will be doing video/throwing out on YouTube with links -just have learn how.

I have iPad Pro

Why am I missing these shots I make 10 out of 10 if you just laid them out?

Thx guys.
Click to expand...


Playing the ghost is fun and is a great way to "test" what you learn in drills/practice.

It sounds to me that you need to spend less time PLAYING and more time working on fundamentals.

After you get your fundamentals ironed out...then you will have something to work with to be more accurate at shot making and position play with the cb.

Dont know your situation, but if it's at all possible I would get at least one or two lessons.

There are people on here that are great teachers and some can even help people online by way of video and phone. It's better if in person, but online / phone lessons can more beneficial that most think.

That's just my opinion but I truly believe that you will be better served to at least have someone look at your stance and stroke mechanics. Otherwise l, I fear you will continue to make the same mistakes over and over and in the end....play the same month after month, year after year or even worse.....get frustrated and quit.

My advice is to do a search on AZB for lessons. I promise it will be the very best way to spend your time/money when it comes to reaching higher levels in pool.

I wish I had did the exact thing I advised you to do when I was still healthy enough to play.

Jeff
 
W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Day 8 - went back to races to 7- WON 7 to 3

Everything felt good.
Observations:
I watched my 5 game sample video u guys were RIGHT!
Things I didn’t like-My break-jumping up-adjusted that, my stroke-found a better balance of letting my stroke go/aiming carefully, my shot-stayed down longer
3 games I lost-2 minor position errors- one miss on relatively tough shot.
Trusting my draw shot more.....better.

Removing mental barriers -may sound silly, but-took the door of the room with table-makes me see the table every time I walk by it.
Got rid of board and went to penny markers-just didn’t like marking those lines and having it in my face.
Covered the window.

Went to races to 7. That is ALL my body can take at one time without hurting.

Didn’t video, but will video/upload moving forward.
I REALLY like 6 ball. I’m an 8 ball player by design, then obviously 9 ball was all the do in the 80’s, but I love 6 ball. Gonna work on some bank practice, draw shots, and studying toms one pocket book. I love one pocket.

Thx so much to all.
 
Tin Man

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm not the fundamental guy, Scott Lee, Randy G, and Dr. Dave are the experts in that field. My take on your play is that your fundamentals are fine for your level of play. Your stance looks comfortable, your stroke isn't rushed and seems to accelerate in a straight line, and you have a good pre-shot routine where you address the ball standing. So if I was working with you I wouldn't spend a ton of time there.

It seems right now that you are limited by your cue ball positional tools. I'm glad you are playing 6 ball and not 8 ball. 8 ball you can work around the shots you don't know, hence you won't learn. 6 ball will force you to solve problems on the table that you can avoid in 8 ball.

You hit a few draw shots and are no stranger to spinning the cue ball, but your understanding of where the cue ball will go and the accuracy of striking the cue ball with your tip both have room to grow.

What I would recommend are learning the shots in Bert Kinister's 60 minute work out. There are many other paths to take but this one is a good place to start. You can go to his site and for $5-10 access his 60 minute workout. He has a series of around 30 shots that he wants you to learn. Pocketing the ball is usually simple, but it's learning different hits on the cue ball and the exact path the cue ball will take. Why I'm a believer is that once you have those tools in your tool box then you can really start solving problems on the table. Right now you are missing some of the tools. Like the first rack, getting from the 2 to the 3 was going to be difficult without a full arsenal, and sure enough it stopped you.

I'd say practice through 5-10 shots a day and work through the rotation a few times so that in a month or two you feel comfortable with all of them. You can spend 30 minutes a day doing this. What's great is that instead of a vague idea of where the cue ball will go, you'll develop a really clear picture on at least some shots. And they are some of the most important shots.

Once you do this, then I'd recommend that instead of just playing the ghost, you set up the runs you miss and try to figure out how to use your tools to run through them. If you just rerack every time then you are in the same danger as the 8 ball; you'll just win the racks you can beat, lose to the ones you can't, and move on. But if you set up one run and work on it until you figure out how to use your tools to solve it, then you'll grow. Particularly if you're adding new weapons to your game.

In short, dive deeper into specific cue ball position shots, which will improve tip accuracy and your positional options, then dive deeper on challenging patterns until you can solve the puzzle.

You can still play sets against the ghost. I'd just spend some time with the new shots each day, then pick one rack you felt confused by after your ghost sets to zoom in on. My two cents.
 
W

white1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you thank you and thank you

Tin Man said:
I'm not the fundamental guy, Scott Lee, Randy G, and Dr. Dave are the experts in that field. My take on your play is that your fundamentals are fine for your level of play. Your stance looks comfortable, your stroke isn't rushed and seems to accelerate in a straight line, and you have a good pre-shot routine where you address the ball standing. So if I was working with you I wouldn't spend a ton of time there.

It seems right now that you are limited by your cue ball positional tools. I'm glad you are playing 6 ball and not 8 ball. 8 ball you can work around the shots you don't know, hence you won't learn. 6 ball will force you to solve problems on the table that you can avoid in 8 ball.

You hit a few draw shots and are no stranger to spinning the cue ball, but your understanding of where the cue ball will go and the accuracy of striking the cue ball with your tip both have room to grow.

What I would recommend are learning the shots in Bert Kinister's 60 minute work out. There are many other paths to take but this one is a good place to start. You can go to his site and for $5-10 access his 60 minute workout. He has a series of around 30 shots that he wants you to learn. Pocketing the ball is usually simple, but it's learning different hits on the cue ball and the exact path the cue ball will take. Why I'm a believer is that once you have those tools in your tool box then you can really start solving problems on the table. Right now you are missing some of the tools. Like the first rack, getting from the 2 to the 3 was going to be difficult without a full arsenal, and sure enough it stopped you.

I'd say practice through 5-10 shots a day and work through the rotation a few times so that in a month or two you feel comfortable with all of them. You can spend 30 minutes a day doing this. What's great is that instead of a vague idea of where the cue ball will go, you'll develop a really clear picture on at least some shots. And they are some of the most important shots.

Once you do this, then I'd recommend that instead of just playing the ghost, you set up the runs you miss and try to figure out how to use your tools to run through them. If you just rerack every time then you are in the same danger as the 8 ball; you'll just win the racks you can beat, lose to the ones you can't, and move on. But if you set up one run and work on it until you figure out how to use your tools to solve it, then you'll grow. Particularly if you're adding new weapons to your game.

In short, dive deeper into specific cue ball position shots, which will improve tip accuracy and your positional options, then dive deeper on challenging patterns until you can solve the puzzle.

You can still play sets against the ghost. I'd just spend some time with the new shots each day, then pick one rack you felt confused by after your ghost sets to zoom in on. My two cents.
Click to expand...

You just made my day. Had never really heard of this guy. 10 days off work. I’m definitely gonna subscribe tomorrow and work through that 60 minute workout. 30 dollars for 30 days gives you access to all 100 videos.

Might try 60 minutes a day on his stuff, then play one set a day.
Thank you. It was great to hear that in your opinion, my stance/fundamental.stroke stuff doesn’t gave to be rebuilt. That great news. After reading your post, it’s clear. I’m missing some shots cause I couldn’t get whitey where I wanted it, thx.
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey Ray,

I watched your video.

IMO, your fundamentals do need work BEFORE going into things such as pattern play, cb control (spin etc..etc).

I am a fundamentals guy and IMO.....your game will be no stronger than your fundamentals. That holds especially true under pressure. When we get put under pressure, our fundamentals are what we fall back on.


Pattern play, position etc etc is really important but when you are under the gun, you cant be thinking:

Is my stance right, is my stroke jerky or consistent.



While standing back from the table, you need to be able to think:

I want to make the OB in "x" pocket
I want my CB to end up in "x" position


Then you have to let your brain figure out how to do those things and it just cant do them well enough if your thinking:

Am I setting at the cb long enough?
Is my transition to my back swing slow and smooth?
Is my pause between my back swing and follow through long enough?
Is my transition from pause to follow through smooth by building speed instead of rushing into it?
Am I accelerating through the cb and not letting up just before or at contact?


I understand your pushed for space around your table but you need to step back from the table when possible to get the best visual from:

OB to pocket
CB to OB
Shot line your gonna walk into and drop down on

You just cant do those things if you hug the table and never step back to let yourself get the best possible picture.

IMO, it would be a mistake to start worrying about anything in front of the CB at this point. I would get everything BEHIND the CB in order and then worry about all of the other.

In the end, I agree with TinMan that your stroke is not bad but you dont sound like you want to settle for "not bad" or "good enough".

After all, if someone is willing to give up there bedroom and SLEEP ON THE FLOOR so they can have a pool table.........I DO NOT think they should cut corners.

The people that TinMan suggested for fundamental training would be a great place to start.

After you get your fundamentals down.......IMO.......then you should get with someone like TinMan.

TinMan is a VERY strong player and IMO he is also a VERY good teacher. He is one that can DO and TEACH.

In closing, remember one thing:

Building a good pool player is like building a house. Would you really want to start anything before the FOUNDATION is done and done right?

Foundation = Fundamentals

spin / english / pattern play etc...etc... = everything on top of the FOUNDATION.

I look forward to watching you improve.

Jeff
 
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