How long has the idea of a Carbon Fiber shaft been around?

Straightpool_99 said:

Graphite shafts have been around forever, seemingly. Particularly with wooden core.

The first carbon fiber shafts I heard about was made for straight rail billiards, I believe by Longoni. I could be mistaken, though. That was way, way before any pool shafts were made that way. I only actually heard about them through a Billiards (carom) player I knew. He said he'd tried it, but it did not have a pleasant hit and was not suitable for 3 cushion, which was his main discipline. What exact material was used, one would have to research further, I can't guarantee it was proper high modulus carbon. A quick search shows Longoni having tried and sold many different materials, like kevlar, ergal, graphite and laminated wood. My friend was adamant the shaft was "carbon" and not graphite. I suppose I could have been referring to kevlar. I can't find any references to a pure carbon shaft by Longoni in the early 2000s. Sadly he has passed, so I guess it will be up to others to clarify.

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The Graphite Series cues from Cuetec were Carbon Fiber aka Carbon Graphite and branded as Graphite. But the manufacturing method, specifically the binding method, can make one Carbon Fiber like Cuetec’s completey crap for pool cues. So even though Cuetec was using Carbon Fiber, they’re use and experience of it ended up being a totally different material altogether compared to what we’re seeing offered today.


Freddie <~~~ plasticly speaking

What I TRULY don’t get is why people keep engaging this guy. I think this is now the 5th-8th alias of the great Justin Bryson. You can tell by the writing style.

Shawn Armstrong said:

What I TRULY don’t get is why people keep engaging this guy. I think this is now the 5th-8th alias of the great Justin Bryson. You can tell by the writing style.

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I was thinking this too. His previous name is no longer listed as a member. Still wondering if that jaime_lion is him too. Seems it could be his saltier alter ego.

Straightpool_99 said:

Graphite shafts have been around forever, seemingly. Particularly with wooden core.

The first carbon fiber shafts I heard about was made for straight rail billiards, I believe by Longoni. I could be mistaken, though. That was way, way before any pool shafts were made that way. I only actually heard about them through a Billiards (carom) player I knew. He said he'd tried it, but it did not have a pleasant hit and was not suitable for 3 cushion, which was his main discipline. What exact material was used, one would have to research further, I can't guarantee it was proper high modulus carbon. A quick search shows Longoni having tried and sold many different materials, like kevlar, ergal, graphite and laminated wood. My friend was adamant the shaft was "carbon" and not graphite. I suppose I could have been referring to kevlar. I can't find any references to a pure carbon shaft by Longoni in the early 2000s. Sadly he has passed, so I guess it will be up to others to clarify.

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i think than longoni wasn't the first producer of carbon fiber shafts, since >30 years ago, some other little italian companies were making carbon composite shafts too. Primary for the 5 pins game , and then for straight rail.

as for example, in the 80's was sold in europe a superb italian straight rail cue & shaft in carbon composite, inside the butt you could not only add/remove weight, but to adjust the balance point. the butt was in carbon composite with a piece of thuya burl as handle. I loved it, bought one -it wasn't cheap, even second hand- around 1995.(and i still own a couple of >20 years old kevlar shafts , including a longoni kevlar composite cue. it's old, pal ...)

To make peole to believe than the carbon composite shaft has been recently created by predator or by becue, that's pure marketing !

carbon composite shafts were produced in italy >30 years ago. primary for the 5 pins games. and they used glass & aramid(kevlar) to make shafts too .

the predator carbon composite shaft history is pure marketing... reinventing the wheel , that's a matter of business ... of strong evidence.

Now when I do have at least some experience with shafts made using cf blanks and some knowledge about the constuction, process, materials used and so on...
to tell the truth the main question for me is what could not be done 10, 20, 30 years ago the way it is done nowadays so made it possible these modern cf shafts do perform good enough to say the least?
Is it about the way modern blanks are manufactured (the process and materials), certain changes in the constuction of the shafts whatever?
My common sense tells me the reasons are more likely economical. What is the main interest of most companies if not any ...doing business? May be the profit?
The availability, quality and the costs of the woods getting worse and unfortunately very unlikely the situation is going to change dramatically for better.
Another very important factor is the time needed to manufacture and certainly there are some other important factors...
So the one of the most important tasks got those specialists in marketing. They did their job well so as those whose job was to produce and offer a nice product with certain benefits which would be desired by many potential customers...the rest is a matter of...?

I remember Niels Feijen taking a tour of his sponsor Longoni, and they claimed Italy started using composite cues since the early 80's

Bob Jewett said:

Then can you explain how the earlier companies failed? Were the shafts too expensive to produce? Were they, like Predator's 1998 prototype, worthless for power spin shots? Did they simply not understand marketing?

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well, Bob, i believe that at this time the carom market wasn't ready : the most popular games in Europe (their primary market at this time) were still 'small games'/ aka straight rail/balkline, the composite cues /shafts weren't cheap, Adam was massively sold, Longoni was 'seen 'as a bit lower end stuff at this time -at least in my area- , and as you said, the most important detail it is, IMHO i believe the manufacturers simply didn't understand the importance of marketing....

30 years later, the world has changed , marketing is now a major key to success , and 3 cushions , now the most 'popular' of carom games ... no more penthatlon , straight rail, balkline world championships anymore ....
At this time the 5 pins players did jump on the composite novelty -like artistic carom players- ,but the small games players didn't believe in the composite technology and simply kept their wood shafts... ( a noticeable exception to this was Brahim Djoubri, France )

i still got an aramid/ kevlar composite cue from the late 90's-early 2000's , it was a novelty and played well , but it wasn't the biggest sale, so they stopped to produce it ...