The road ahead

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
It's a tragic thing that so many pool players stop improving at some point, and even more so if they stop enjoying the game. How do people get so far astray? Is it simply because they've reached the end of their road and can go no further, and since enjoyment is linked to improvement this dead end sucks the joy out of their past time?

I think the vast majority of pool players are capable of continued progress and a fulfilling journey but unrealistic expectations lie in their way. Unrealistic expectations of their rate of improvement, and unrealistic expectations as to how often they win.

When a player first picks up the game they see rapid improvement. It's daily and it's visible. Records continuously fall, new shots are being learned and mastered, problems that would've stopped you yesterday are now being overcome. It's an exiting time of growth! It's addicting! As your skills develop you find yourself competing against other players that aren't keeping up, and due to a decisive skill gap you are winning all the time. In handicapped tournaments you are continuously underrated and getting to the money. It seems like a video game where you are constantly leveling up, first playing a higher level of player and losing, then hanging with them, and then trouncing them consistently.

Based on the experiences above, players extrapolate how this will play out in the future. They will keep keep moving up to higher levels of players, keep getting better day by day, and will continue to dominate, all the way until they are the best in the world. Right?!?

Then things taper off. They haven't seen improvement for a while. In fact, it seems like they've been playing at the same level for some time now. Meanwhile they aren't winning all the time. In fact, it seems like they are having a hard time winning as often as they did in the past. And there are all these younger hot shots coming up. It's hard to keep up, much less get better. What happened?

This is the point at which most people are defeated. They had a vision of how things were supposed to go, and little by little that vision popped like a balloon. But is this really evidence that the road comes to an end? Or was it just that the road ahead doesn't look like we expected it to?

In my experience the road doesn't end, it just evolves. Progress IS much harder to achieve after a certain point. Once you've picked the low hanging fruit on the learning curve it's hard, hard work to keep moving forward. And the win rate will fall. That is because you are seeking out better and better opponents, adversaries who have devoted equal amounts of time and energy into the game if not more.

So the road from beginner to advanced is paved with improvement and wins. The road from advanced to master is paved with plateaus and losses. Most people look at this and assume they are on the wrong path, or they don't have what it takes. That is because they are comparing it to what the road looked like in the beginning. Maybe if they understood this is normal they'd be better prepared for what lies ahead, and would enjoy it rather than being frustrated or discouraged.

It's like a relationship. In the honeymoon stage there are butterflies and endorphins. A text message can alter your mood, and everything seems vibrant and amazing. After a few years past that evolves into something else. A more mature relationship. One based on shared history, better understanding of each other, deeper levels of appreciation and trust, etc. Maybe you miss the rush you got when you received a text message, but instead you find that your partner replaced your pair of slippers that were worn out before you even realized you needed a new pair. It's not infatuation, it's a real relationship. It's a shame when people abandon genuine relationships chasing a rush, and it's a shame when people quit pool because the honeymoon phase doesn't last forever.

For me personally, I was playing very strong over 10 years ago. I had been pretty dominant in my local area, had scalped a number of champions in pro tournaments, and was hitting the balls pretty well. It was very, very hard to get better. I saw no visible improvement for years. The universe couldn't have done a better job trying to convince me I couldn't go any further. But I didn't stop. I kept working. Working harder, working smarter. The specifics are for another post. But here's the thing: While I didn't see improvement day to day, or even year to year, looking back at the last 10 years I can see that I have improved. I can see that in my game. I can see it in my results.

I hope a better understanding of what the road ahead looks like allows people to avoid discouragement and frustration, and instead enjoy the challenge of the journey and the deeper relationship they can achieve with this game. It gets harder, but it's only more satisfying when it comes, and if you learn to love the adversity then it doesn't get any better.
 

Lawnboy77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very well stated! Another great post...I see why you have achieved such great success in this sport. Thanks for sharing!
 

noMoreSchon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you. I myself will always enjoy the game, knowing I have not put the time in I should

have, and continue down this road with no expectations of playing the Mosconi cup.

You have sparked something with that, my road has not ended, and I still can put the time

in, and see improvement. I still do see improvement, consistency really. I see players,

and think that they are naturals, or have had more time. The reality is I have not taken the

game all that seriously the past 15 years. But with the new year coming, I am going to set

some goals.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
True in all forms of competition

The field is much closer to level the closer we get to the top. Racing cars a thousand dollars or a few changes might be worth half a second when my car was barely top ten. When it was top five it might cost me a thousand dollars or a dozen changes to get a tenth of a second faster. When it was top three it might cost me a thousand dollars and over a dozen changes to get another tenth faster.

In pool it was a bit different. I found one change that rewrote my win/loss record. All it took was five thousand hours or so over three years of constant effort to make that one change.

I had my time in the sun then I went away from pool. Now I play a little but the truth is I don't have the time or the will to put in another five or ten thousand hours and I'm skeptical that this would be enough. The eyes aren't the same, the body isn't the same, we do reach a point where we are no longer gaining but slowly losing ground.

One thing I learned though that would be valuable for anyone, chart your growth. We seem to have times of stagnation but if we chart our progress monthly we will probably be surprised to see that there are no real times of stagnation. Sometimes we make rapid growth, sometimes it is slow. As long as we are healthy and dedicated the growth continues. We may make a rare wrong turn and have to change direction but for the most part we gain as long as we sincerely keep trying to grow.

Select some yardsticks and chart them every month. It works and it keeps a person motivated where when we just go by our faulty memories growth may seem to not be happening. We gain until we give up or age and infirmity bite us in the butt. We just have to look for that gain.

Hu
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
tin man
sent you a greenie for a great inspirational and insightful post.....:thumbup:
i myself have had stages when i felt like
"why keep beating my head against the wall i just dont have it"......:angry::embarrassed2:
but then a new wave of perseverance and enjoy the journey came over me....:smile:
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OP, everything, not just pool is like that.

The old saying:

If it was easy, everyone would do it.....



Lol....well, it's not easy but, most everyone is doing it. Thing is, most only think they are doing it right but, their not.

I know you were talking about pool. Well, so am I but, it would also apply to everything else on the planet.

Good post though. I'm sure it will help someone by getting them revved up to learn the right way and then not give up as it gets to higher levels of play.

In the end though, if just one in a thousand did what you suggest, I would be surprised. It is way more time, work and money than most care to put in toward something that has little to no guarantee of panning out as something that's worth it to their spouse etc...etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, in every way. Our sport desperately needs more of exactly what you describe but, it would take an actual miracle to get even a small percentage to do so. That's one of the reasons why more rooms don't have really strong players on every other table.

Jeff
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thank you for the replies.

jrc, yes, life is like this too. There are many things I've learned from pool that apply to all aspects of my life. This is why it's such a great game, you can better yourself and your life by learning how to play well.

You mention only a very few number of players will do this. I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean. My post wasn't aimed at any particular end goal. Rather the idea that if we put in time, we can make it count or we can waste it. If we believe we're at the end of the road we might be more inclined to piss away our time and energy thinking it doesn't matter, and regretting that circumstances don't allow us to put in more. Whereas in reality if they remained optimistic, determined, and enthusiastic with the resources they had, maybe they would've seen some breakthroughs. Nothing that would get the world to take notice perhaps, but enough to be worthwhile.

It's like saving for retirement. When you're just starting out in your career it's hard to set money aside. Maybe you look at the amount you can save and it's so small you feel like it's not worth the effort or discipline, because it will never add up. But not only would that money have compounded for 40 years, it would have started a habit that would've combined with this and amount to a surprising sum without any massive single contribution.

bbb said he felt like the journey was over. In sales they say "The job doesn't start until the customer says no". I don't agree with that by the way, it sounds pretty old school. But it's an interesting idea. Everyone is a bicycling champion when they're going down hill with a tail wind. Character is revealed when facing adversity.

Thank you lawnboy and hotelyorba. If you're going to play, might as well do your best. We all have to stop thinking in black and white. It's not we're Josh Filler or we're worthless. We're competing against ourselves. So maybe you'll never have the time and resources to match others. Maybe you don't have the talent (although I believe this game has more to do with application than talent, but that is another post as well). But if you give your all you'll get more out than if you don't. You're competing against the 'you' you will be if you don't give your all. And however skilled or unskilled you are technically, you can improve on this or not based on what you do with the time you are putting in. And much of the quality of your practice is shaped by what you believe about yourself. Believe that you can't accomplish anything of value and you'll practice fewer hours, enjoy yourself less, and will be unlikely to be the best version of yourself. And visa versa. It starts with your belief which transforms your actions which transforms your experience.

My goal is to be the best I can be with the time and resources I have to put in. I don't have time to worry about what I don't have to put in. I'm here to make every practice session meaningful and enjoy the days I have.
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Now I play a little but the truth is I don't have the time or the will to put in another five or ten thousand hours and I'm skeptical that this would be enough. The eyes aren't the same, the body isn't the same, we do reach a point where we are no longer gaining but slowly losing ground.

Hu

Never playing serious pool (previously a once-in-a-while banger) until I was already 53 years old, I am quite satisfied with my improvements considering my body started going bad shortly after I started playing seriously. Eyes, shoulders, neck, and heart give me problems, along with the many medications I take for various ailments (diabetes/heart meds being the most damaging to my game).

I am not a great pool player and consider myself an average player on a good day. I got within the 9-ball of having a three-pack (at age 64) and I felt damn good about that.

I know where I stand in the pool world, so you will NEVER see me bragging about how good of a player I am like I suspect a few on these forums claim they are. I realize my limitations, understand that I'll never get to where I want to be. I'll keep plugging away, simply because the games of pool are just so dang fun I cannot pull myself away from the table for any great length of time.

And...as far as time goes, being retired gives me all the time in the world for playing pool. That said, I have a few other hobbies I donate my time to. Fishing/boating, shooting/reloading/hunting, motorcycling, ATV-ing to name a few. So obviously I will never give all my time to any single hobby/sport I indulge in.

Pool...I love it and always will until they pry my cue from my cold, dead hands. It doesn't always have to be about competition, and it isn't for me. It's more therapeutic for me and I feel the problem-solving aspects of pool are healthy for my aging brain.

Maniac
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you for the replies.

jrc, yes, life is like this too. There are many things I've learned from pool that apply to all aspects of my life. This is why it's such a great game, you can better yourself and your life by learning how to play well.

You mention only a very few number of players will do this. I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean. My post wasn't aimed at any particular end goal. Rather the idea that if we put in time, we can make it count or we can waste it. If we believe we're at the end of the road we might be more inclined to piss away our time and energy thinking it doesn't matter, and regretting that circumstances don't allow us to put in more. Whereas in reality if they remained optimistic, determined, and enthusiastic with the resources they had, maybe they would've seen some breakthroughs. Nothing that would get the world to take notice perhaps, but enough to be worthwhile.

It's like saving for retirement. When you're just starting out in your career it's hard to set money aside. Maybe you look at the amount you can save and it's so small you feel like it's not worth the effort or discipline, because it will never add up. But not only would that money have compounded for 40 years, it would have started a habit that would've combined with this and amount to a surprising sum without any massive single contribution.

bbb said he felt like the journey was over. In sales they say "The job doesn't start until the customer says no". I don't agree with that by the way, it sounds pretty old school. But it's an interesting idea. Everyone is a bicycling champion when they're going down hill with a tail wind. Character is revealed when facing adversity.

Thank you lawnboy and hotelyorba. If you're going to play, might as well do your best. We all have to stop thinking in black and white. It's not we're Josh Filler or we're worthless. We're competing against ourselves. So maybe you'll never have the time and resources to match others. Maybe you don't have the talent (although I believe this game has more to do with application than talent, but that is another post as well). But if you give your all you'll get more out than if you don't. You're competing against the 'you' you will be if you don't give your all. And however skilled or unskilled you are technically, you can improve on this or not based on what you do with the time you are putting in. And much of the quality of your practice is shaped by what you believe about yourself. Believe that you can't accomplish anything of value and you'll practice fewer hours, enjoy yourself less, and will be unlikely to be the best version of yourself. And visa versa. It starts with your belief which transforms your actions which transforms your experience.

My goal is to be the best I can be with the time and resources I have to put in. I don't have time to worry about what I don't have to put in. I'm here to make every practice session meaningful and enjoy the days I have.

In my experience, especially with pool, people almost always go from one extreme to the other. Very few actually stay with it "whole heartedly" but, rather just coast thru, just hitting balls and not realizing they aren't making progress but, instead are falling back.

I enjoyed the read. It's always refreshing to find that someone is determined to help our sport and the people that are in it.

Jeff
 

strmanglr scott

All about Focus
Silver Member
I don't feel enjoyment is linked to improvement. However, it is one of the most enjoyable parts of the game.

I think for some players, they get to a certain point and don't know how to get better.

It amazes me on the number of pool players who don't improve at all. Most players I know are playing about the same, from the better players to the lower level players.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't feel enjoyment is linked to improvement. However, it is one of the most enjoyable parts of the game.

I think for some players, they get to a certain point and don't know how to get better.

It amazes me on the number of pool players who don't improve at all. Most players I know are playing about the same, from the better players to the lower level players.

I was a state level bodybuilder for a number of years. After I stopped competing, I opened a private gym in order to train others.

During my competition years, I just assumed most didn't have the genetics to step on stage and be competitive. Well, after I started training others I realized that it wasn't genetics that held most back, it was the lack of knowledge and most importantly, the desire to become competitive.

At that point, I changed my focus from training in the gym to coaching them on lifestyle and dietary needs that was required to be a successful bodybuilder.

Well, soon after I made the change from gym to classroom, I realized that no matter how knowledgeable I was, nor how bad I wanted them to succeed, most of them just wasn't "willing" to do what it took to get there.

Very few bodybuilders have what it takes to compete at state levels and even fewer are able to complete at national levels.

Pool is no different than bodybuilding when it comes to what level they are able to reach.

Most of the lower tier pros work extremely hard to just be a pro in general. The elite work even harder.

We as amateurs have to work just as hard to reach and stay at whatever level we are capable of.

IMO, reaching state level in bodybuilding is equal to a being a strong shortstop in the pool world.

Not unlike bodybuilding, in pool, it takes more and more effort to just maintain our current level. Especially as we age.

Regardless of the hobby, sport...whatever....most everyone will have regrets about the "what if's". Thing is, they don't start to feel that regret until it's more or less to late.

The example TinMan used about saving for retirement was a great example of what players could do if they they would stay with it at a serious level and not just "play".

Jeff
 
Last edited:

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Never happened without pictures. :thumbup:

Maniac

Lol....I hear ya.

I was a much better coach and trainer than I was at competition itself.

I got a few old pics from the mr. AL from late 70's and early 80's. Best I placed in the al was 3rd in the overall and 2nd in the middle weight divisions.

Other than those two, it was a long string of 4th and last places until I decide to stop starving myself to death for nodda.

There are lots of times I wished that it didn't happen. Like every time my knees, back, shoulders etc...etc start up... a lot of wear n tear on my body for, like I said...nothing.

Like the man said, "youth is wasted on the young"..

Jeff
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thank you for the replies.

jrc, yes, life is like this too. There are many things I've learned from pool that apply to all aspects of my life. This is why it's such a great game, you can better yourself and your life by learning how to play well.

You mention only a very few number of players will do this. I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean. My post wasn't aimed at any particular end goal. Rather the idea that if we put in time, we can make it count or we can waste it. If we believe we're at the end of the road we might be more inclined to piss away our time and energy thinking it doesn't matter, and regretting that circumstances don't allow us to put in more. Whereas in reality if they remained optimistic, determined, and enthusiastic with the resources they had, maybe they would've seen some breakthroughs. Nothing that would get the world to take notice perhaps, but enough to be worthwhile.

It's like saving for retirement. When you're just starting out in your career it's hard to set money aside. Maybe you look at the amount you can save and it's so small you feel like it's not worth the effort or discipline, because it will never add up. But not only would that money have compounded for 40 years, it would have started a habit that would've combined with this and amount to a surprising sum without any massive single contribution.

bbb said he felt like the journey was over. In sales they say "The job doesn't start until the customer says no". I don't agree with that by the way, it sounds pretty old school. But it's an interesting idea. Everyone is a bicycling champion when they're going down hill with a tail wind. Character is revealed when facing adversity.

Thank you lawnboy and hotelyorba. If you're going to play, might as well do your best. We all have to stop thinking in black and white. It's not we're Josh Filler or we're worthless. We're competing against ourselves. So maybe you'll never have the time and resources to match others. Maybe you don't have the talent (although I believe this game has more to do with application than talent, but that is another post as well). But if you give your all you'll get more out than if you don't. You're competing against the 'you' you will be if you don't give your all. And however skilled or unskilled you are technically, you can improve on this or not based on what you do with the time you are putting in. And much of the quality of your practice is shaped by what you believe about yourself. Believe that you can't accomplish anything of value and you'll practice fewer hours, enjoy yourself less, and will be unlikely to be the best version of yourself. And visa versa. It starts with your belief which transforms your actions which transforms your experience.

My goal is to be the best I can be with the time and resources I have to put in. I don't have time to worry about what I don't have to put in. I'm here to make every practice session meaningful and enjoy the days I have.

I needed someone like you to talk to me all those years ago. I worked hard at pool for a good ten years and became a good enough player to beat all but the champions who came through my first poolroom. I was strictly a gambler back then but began to play in a tournament or two when I was already in my 30's. I usually managed to win a couple of matches and get in the money but that's about it. I never got over the nerves of tournament pool and consequently failed to improve.

Looking back I realize I never really gave myself a chance, maybe only playing in a big tournament once or twice a year. I never trusted myself to try to follow the pro circuit even though I had the money to do it. Years later I began to understand that I needed to play more to get used to the tournament environment. By then I was too busy working at the tournaments to go back to being a player in them.

The OP is correct. In life you must pay your dues to achieve the success you crave. I did achieve success as a poolroom owner but my real dream of being a top player is something that I failed at for lack of trying hard enough. I gave up on my dream because I didn't trust myself to succeed. I was like a lot of the people Tin Man talks about here. I reached a certain level of competence and when I didn't see any more improvement I quit working to improve my game, and accepted myself as a lower level player.

You need to be mentally strong to become a top player at this game, or any game for that matter. I used to say Pool is like Life. I haven't said that in a long, long time and I'm not so sure I understand why. Tin Man can do a better job of explaining that now.
 
Last edited:

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
The Desire

During my competition years, I just assumed most didn't have the genetics to step on stage and be competitive. Well, after I started training others I realized that it wasn't genetics that held most back, it was the lack of knowledge and most importantly, the desire to become competitive.

Jeff


Over and over I saw people that ran businesses and competitions count how many people could be competing and not understanding that maybe one in ten would compete. I'll stick with pool room owners for this discussion. Owners would count unique customers all week or all month and then scratch their heads why they could only get twenty or thirty competitors in their tournaments.

The simple truth is that most people hate to compete! Even some of the people that do compete are there only to feel like one of the crowd and enjoy the other things at a competition more than winning. I once talked to a benchrest shooter. He had competed for eighteen years and never won an event! I asked him, "You mean a big event?" Nope, never won a twelve man weekend event, never a big event, never won competing thirty or forty times a year for almost twenty years!

First time I was in a field of 120 competitors I was a bit intimidated at the sheer size of the field. A stroll around the event convinced me that there were only twenty to thirty there to win, the rest gave themselves no hope of winning.

When I go to a pool tournament and hear guys say they can't beat the top three or four names there I mentally cross them off my list of competitors. They can't beat those three or four, more importantly to me, they are very unlikely to beat those there sincerely trying to beat the top few. I write off those complaining about conditions too. Yeah, the room is hot, the red cloth makes my damned eyes bleed, I hate the house chalk only rule since they bought the cheapest red stuff they could find, but all of these conditions affect everyone else equally too. I can write off those that are spending a lot of time complaining about conditions.

Once in awhile one of the guys complaining about conditions will fool me, once in awhile one of those "also rans" will catch fire but for the most part I am right to write them off. When I look at only those there to win I can usually write off seventy-five percent of the field or more. One small weekly event I could write off all but two other competitors. The three of us were the winners to the point that I volunteered to skip some weeks to let some others have a chance.

Off topic, but Mike Whitmore was a friend for years after his bodybuilding days. Not sure how good he was but he does have his picture in Arnold's book. He competed in the days before diet and nutrition were understood. Mike only ate steak three meals a day, nothing else but the meat, for years. A friend of his only ate raw steak for years. Mike is a super good guy, just as well because he is still BIG!

Hu
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Over and over I saw people that ran businesses and competitions count how many people could be competing and not understanding that maybe one in ten would compete. I'll stick with pool room owners for this discussion. Owners would count unique customers all week or all month and then scratch their heads why they could only get twenty or thirty competitors in their tournaments.

The simple truth is that most people hate to compete! Even some of the people that do compete are there only to feel like one of the crowd and enjoy the other things at a competition more than winning. I once talked to a benchrest shooter. He had competed for eighteen years and never won an event! I asked him, "You mean a big event?" Nope, never won a twelve man weekend event, never a big event, never won competing thirty or forty times a year for almost twenty years!

First time I was in a field of 120 competitors I was a bit intimidated at the sheer size of the field. A stroll around the event convinced me that there were only twenty to thirty there to win, the rest gave themselves no hope of winning.

When I go to a pool tournament and hear guys say they can't beat the top three or four names there I mentally cross them off my list of competitors. They can't beat those three or four, more importantly to me, they are very unlikely to beat those there sincerely trying to beat the top few. I write off those complaining about conditions too. Yeah, the room is hot, the red cloth makes my damned eyes bleed, I hate the house chalk only rule since they bought the cheapest red stuff they could find, but all of these conditions affect everyone else equally too. I can write off those that are spending a lot of time complaining about conditions.

Once in awhile one of the guys complaining about conditions will fool me, once in awhile one of those "also rans" will catch fire but for the most part I am right to write them off. When I look at only those there to win I can usually write off seventy-five percent of the field or more. One small weekly event I could write off all but two other competitors. The three of us were the winners to the point that I volunteered to skip some weeks to let some others have a chance.

Off topic, but Mike Whitmore was a friend for years after his bodybuilding days. Not sure how good he was but he does have his picture in Arnold's book. He competed in the days before diet and nutrition were understood. Mike only ate steak three meals a day, nothing else but the meat, for years. A friend of his only ate raw steak for years. Mike is a super good guy, just as well because he is still BIG!

Hu

All good points...

Yes, it's usually easy to pick the dangerous players out by just being aware of my surrounding and paying attention to the details of conversations and even facial expressions as people play on new equipment.

There have been times where I've been ran over due to underestimating people but, it's usually a good way to pick the losers out early. Usually, not always but, usually that can help me pick out which horses to bid on.

Old school bodybuilding...whew.... yep... meat and water for weeks and weeks at a time.

I don't miss it. I probably would miss it if I had been more successful. I did ok compared to the field but, for all the health issues it caused me...naw...

Jeff
 
Top