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Low500
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08-30-2019, 07:10 AM

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Originally Posted by born2push View Post
We can make pool great again by everyone getting along!
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The toxic environment created by the soothsayers and false prophets can be controlled with the ignore feature. I have been lax in enjoying that feature. (too bad for me) But that has all changed.
Trying to persuade some hard heads to open their minds is an impossibility. Even good natured harmless satire exacerbates their anger, ignorance, prejudices, and anxiety. Even more if they're pitching something for you to buy.
They cannot 'get along' even if they try. It is not within their capabilities.
Have a good day and enjoy life to the fullest.
  
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Patrick Johnson
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08-30-2019, 07:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
The toxic environment created by the soothsayers and false prophets can be controlled with the ignore feature.
Seems to me you're the only toxic element in this "environment" these days. When was the last time you made a positive contribution here?

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born2push
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10-04-2019, 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
The toxic environment created by the soothsayers and false prophets can be controlled with the ignore feature. I have been lax in enjoying that feature. (too bad for me) But that has all changed.

Trying to persuade some hard heads to open their minds is an impossibility. Even good natured harmless satire exacerbates their anger, ignorance, prejudices, and anxiety. Even more if they're pitching something for you to buy.

They cannot 'get along' even if they try. It is not within their capabilities.

Have a good day and enjoy life to the fullest.

2:
I guess in most of everyday life when we encounter bottom feeders we just tolerate them and move on. Have to do the same thing on the forums. Anyone who slams something so subjective as an aiming system lacks judgement imo. As folks will stick with whatever they think works best reguardless.

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The real elephant in the room - throw with centre cueing
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The real elephant in the room - throw with centre cueing - 11-06-2019, 01:29 AM

At the risk of wading into an existing highly polarized topic here is my two cents. I stayed away from both TOI and CTE because the proponent explanations were frankly contradictory and confusing.

I watched the video referenced and it actually has some clarity. Let’s start with some facts.
The realm of possible cuts is approximately 90°.
From the centre of the ball to the edge physics says lie the angles 0° to 30°.
Aiming using centre ball means that 60° of angles are pointing at a ghost space within a half space beside the object ball.
Aiming is easier when we have a physical target like the centre or the edge, not ghost space.
From the centre of the ball to its edge are the only available landmark locations available to use relative to a centre cue ball cue position.
The relationship between the balls and a target is relatively static.
The position of the cue relative to the balls is the variable that can be adjusted.
The preferred end position for the cue to be delivered along still passes through centre cue ball.
A systematic way to arrive at that point starting with landmarks on the ball’s surface from the ball’s centre to its edge lies at the core of the idea.
By starting at a point, in the case of the video, a cue tip to the side of centre and pointed at a fixed point on the object ball we establish a new reference line.
The idea is that when the cue is now pivoted towards the centre ball, the new cue position will be consistent because it started from real landmarks, it’s repeatable.

Issues that need resolving if this is work include:
How far the balls are apart determines the sensitivity to a pivot.
What distance is the pivot point from the cue ball?
a BHE one tip pivot with a ten inch bridge moves through about 3°.
a FHE one tip pivot from fifty inches swings .6°.
Since these pivots, in theory, all end up at centre ball, deflection should not be a factor.
The same cannot be said for throw - assuming vertical centre ball
speed affects amount of throw
different throw amounts based on angle
throw differs based on vertical rotation or skid.
Combinations of varying angles, speed and rotation need adjusting dynamics.
This is before entering the world of cue ball side spin.
That world introduces varying deflection amounts.

Landmark aiming doesn’t have to orient to centre cue ball as fractional aiming proponents are quick to point out. The edge is used as a reference line there too. CJ Wiley also used the ball face segmented into multiple reference lines. CP2CP uses real visible landmark targets and only needs to parallel shift to centre ball.

All of these systems need to deal with the elephant in the room, centre ball aiming is plagued by throw. Throw is not consistent using centre ball. Systems that get you to be he ghost ball location without having to start the aiming process in a ghost space, are more consistent and will work well on smaller tables and for short shots.

The elasticity model ghost ball location is a great starting reference location but not a great aiming model for centre ball cueing.

I choose to use a variation of CP2CP that normally doesn’t use centre ball cueing. My objective is different. I use the ghost ball methodology and a strategy of generating consistent minimal throw. This is regardless of speed, angle and distance.

My initial reaction to using the ball surface as a landmark reference was positive. I think it might be a good way to teach beginners angles in the simple form presented in the Lil Chris video. That said I think players need to take off the training wheels fairly quickly and learn to deal with the reality of throw in its various forms. A good starting point is the gearing effect of varying amounts of outside english, well presented by Dr. Dave.
  
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