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11-11-2019, 07:28 AM

Actually is a myth that cue tip contact time is the same for all shots.

Let you smart guys figure out what type of shot will have a increase cue tip contact time. Hint.......type of shot that was not used in all those fancy experiments.
  
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11-11-2019, 09:15 AM

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Originally Posted by duckie View Post
Actually is a myth that cue tip contact time is the same for all shots.
Who do you think says otherwise?

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11-11-2019, 10:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Who do you think says otherwise?

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The man who says there is no half ball hit or no edges to balls...LOL
  
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11-11-2019, 11:17 AM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
The idea that contact time can be meaningfully controlled with your stroke (or that it would make any meaningful difference if you could) has been repeatedly debunked.
Can you clarify this? Are you saying that nothing can be done to change contact time, including how hard you hit the shot? If that is true, and nobody has ever hit a shot with a longer contact time, how do you know that it cannot make any difference?


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11-11-2019, 06:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
The idea that contact time can be meaningfully controlled with your stroke (or that it would make any meaningful difference if you could) has been repeatedly debunked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
Can you clarify this? Are you saying that nothing can be done to change contact time, including how hard you hit the shot? If that is true, and nobody has ever hit a shot with a longer contact time, how do you know that it cannot make any difference?
Contact time changes with force, tip offset and even tip hardness, in a normal range of 1-2 ms. That's all been demonstrated in clear and convincing ways. The theory of controlling contact time some other way, and why it would be beneficial, hasn't really even been clearly proposed.

But as was said above, if that visualization improves the effectiveness of somebody's stroke then it's a good tool, damn the reason.

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11-12-2019, 01:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Contact time changes with force, tip offset and even tip hardness, in a normal range of 1-2 ms. That's all been demonstrated in clear and convincing ways. The theory of controlling contact time some other way, and why it would be beneficial, hasn't really even been clearly proposed.

But as was said above, if that visualization improves the effectiveness of somebody's stroke then it's a good tool, damn the reason.

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Ahh yes, the old swoop stroke. I tend to agree with you, but to be fair, all that has been established is that a handful of amateur players cannot make it work. If Mike Massey can't do it then I'd say it is probably impossible.


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11-12-2019, 02:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
Ahh yes, the old swoop stroke. I tend to agree with you, but to be fair, all that has been established is that a handful of amateur players cannot make it work. If Mike Massey can't do it then I'd say it is probably impossible.
I don't recall hearing the claim that a swoop stroke lengthens contact time, but I'm sure that's part of somebody's claim that it produces "more spin". As I'm sure you know, a swoop stroke is just a (less reliable) way to angle the stroke for squirt - no special effects added.

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Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 11-12-2019 at 02:30 PM.
  
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11-12-2019, 02:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I don't recall hearing the claim that a swoop stroke lengthens contact time, but I'm sure that's part of somebody's claim that it produces "more spin". As I'm sure you know, a swoop stroke is just a (less reliable) way to angle the stroke for squirt - no special effects added.

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I believe "longer contact time" was the means by which more spin could be imparted with just the right swoop. Again, I'm personally doubtful of this claim, but if Mike Massey says he can do it, I'm not betting against him just because a few amateur players tried and failed to do it. That's all I'm saying (and Massey is simply an example).

I'm more interested in that snooker coach Barry. In that video on timing he states that a pro player declared that he had a "good hit" on shots that were in contact for an extra 2 MICROseconds, not milliseconds! Unfortunately, Barry has not made the data available so that others can see if this correlation achieves statistical significance. Of course, I've never asked him for the data, so maybe he would provide it. I'd be surprised if a player can detect a 2 microsecond increase in contact time, but I wouldn't prejudge that it is impossible, either. Starting with what the data shows is a good place to start.


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