[deanoc]

the more i try the worse i get

i get nothing but bad rolls until i am afraid to shoot when i get an easy shot

now i want to sell my table

frustrated in dallas

[sjm]

Perhaps the game isn't for you, but at their peaks in 9-ball, both Jeanette Lee and Mika Immonen used straight pool as their primary practice game. If didn't seem to obstruct their paths to BCA Hall of Fame induction. Don't give up on the game. It will help you with speed control, finesse, short position play, and general problem solving, All of this will translate well to the other games.

[Straightpool_99]

Originally Posted by deanoc

the more i try the worse i get

i get nothing but bad rolls until i am afraid to shoot when i get an easy shot

now i want to sell my table

frustrated in dallas

You're practising wrong

The bad rolls part is easy: Try not to touch so many balls. 90% of the "bad rolls" I see, are just results of people bumping into things they don't need to.

Also, shoot shots in with authority, when you can. Punting balls all the time is just inviting disaster. Some people shoot themselves out of stroke by slow rolling everything.

[deanoc]

I like watching good players play it

Much more than 9 ball,I care nothing for 9 Ball

14:1 has a certain class
But it just kills me

It doesn't help me with speed or finesse,I play one pocket and it requires those same
skills

Not that I have much skill,but what I have gets worse and worse

[BC21]

Originally Posted by deanoc

I like watching good players play it

Much more than 9 ball,I care nothing for 9 Ball

14:1 has a certain class
But it just kills me

It doesn't help me with speed or finesse,I play one pocket and it requires those same
skills

Not that I have much skill,but what I have gets worse and worse

What I find with 14.1 is that it requires 100% focus on every shot. If you can bear down on 9 or 10 shots in a row before easing up, then running an open rack of 8, 9, or 10 ball becomes quite simple, even an occasional rack of 1 hole. But for straight pool your fucus must be more disciplined, because running 9 or 10 balls and then losing focus or taking the next shot for granted will cost you big time. I think that's why 14.1 is considered great practice for about any game you play.

[maldito]

Originally Posted by deanoc

the more i try the worse i get

i get nothing but bad rolls until i am afraid to shoot when i get an easy shot

now i want to sell my table

frustrated in dallas

There is a psychological aspect of 14.1 that translates to a different rhythm/pace of 14.1 as compared to the shorter games -- you get more shots but in the back of your mind is that miss - in the other games you have more options you can play safe , etc. but you don't worry about the miss because there is always another game coming up so you shoot in a confident rhythm .

I could be wrong but in 14.1 you have an easy shot coming up but you are looking at the layout and thinking what am I going to do next where do I place the cue ball?? this may be affecting your rhythm - in the other games you play especially
rotation your next shot is determined for you - in one pocket you have a lot of options.

If you are that serious then try to get some lessons - perhaps there is a small adjustment that a pro can point out to you.

[Straightpool_99]

Originally Posted by deanoc

the more i try the worse i get

i get nothing but bad rolls until i am afraid to shoot when i get an easy shot

now i want to sell my table

frustrated in dallas

We've all been frustrated with our games.
It would be helpful to tell where exactly your game breaks down. You mention beeing afraid to shoot easy shots, so I'm assuming beginning- to mid-rack? End of rack wouldn't make any sense with that context.

I'm thinking maybe you're rebreaking to late or possibly to early. The idea is generally to clean up enough that rebreaking the balls, you won't create new problems, but at the same time leave a couple of shots open if it doesn't work out. After the initial break of the pack, the next step is to clear lanes to the pockets. If the rack is not particularly open, you'll often have to rebreak right away after that, to give yourself options. Don't be afraid to lay into the secondary break if the pack is still sizeable. It is my experience, that it is not advisable to break the secondary pack from underneath, UNLESS you have an excellent insurance ball. There are some rare situations where you can skip off the balls and go 1 or 3 rails like a normal break shot, but disregarding that. I will go to some lengths to always break a secondary cluster from the side or the top. I've been doubled up and snookered too many times from underneath. I don't like it. I don't like shooting tought shots into uptable pockets with the understanding that missing will cost me the game. Don't know about you, but I think that it is silly to bet the entire game on shots like this.

Another possibility is that you're underestimating the difficulty of the "easy" shots. Making a shot and doing something very specific with the cueball (other than just float into a big area) is not easy. Often you need a specific speed and angle into a cluster. It's just part of straight pool. The people who scoff at the difficulty should not be listned to.

[Straightpool_99]

I don't know how accurate I am with my assessment here? I've never seen you play, so I'm going by what you say. If I were to give you 1 piece of advice in conjunction with what I just said, it would be "Stay above the balls". I mean that quite literally, and I really mean it. If there is any doubt at all, select the shot that will keep you above the balls. That's why clearing the pocket paths is so important as well as being sure to not break big secondaries from underneath. It will let you stay above trouble, allowing you to shoot shots that will return you to the safety of mid-table play.

[Seth C.]

Originally Posted by Straightpool_99

I don't know how accurate I am with my assessment here? I've never seen you play, so I'm going by what you say. If I were to give you 1 piece of advice in conjunction with what I just said, it would be "Stay above the balls". I mean that quite literally, and I really mean it. If there is any doubt at all, select the shot that will keep you above the balls. That's why clearing the pocket paths is so important as well as being sure to not break big secondaries from underneath. It will let you stay above trouble, allowing you to shoot shots that will return you to the safety of mid-table play.

There is a lot of good advice in this and your prior post. Let me challenge it a little and see what you think.

Yes, going into the balls from underneath (secondary break) is suicidal in many cases, and the temptation to break them up must be suppressed when the insurance is not there. But - if the insurance is there, I’d advise taking a good, hard look and doing it if leaving the CB with a clear path to the insurance looks likely - even if there is a way to break up the balls from the top side. The reason I say this is that breaking up a secondary pack or cluster from the top is not without its own pitfalls - specifically, it can drive too many (or even all, when the cluster is modest in size) of the clustered balls below where they can serve as a break ball for the next rack, and, relatedly, the balls that are driven down toward or to the foot rail can become tied up and unplayable without being broken apart again.

But with that caveat, I agree entirely that playing from the top side is the way to go.

[Straightpool_99]

Originally Posted by Seth C.

There is a lot of good advice in this and your prior post. Let me challenge it a little and see what you think.

Yes, going into the balls from underneath (secondary break) is suicidal in many cases, and the temptation to break them up must be suppressed when the insurance is not there. But - if the insurance is there, I’d advise taking a good, hard look and doing it if leaving the CB with a clear path to the insurance looks likely - even if there is a way to break up the balls from the top side. The reason I say this is that breaking up a secondary pack or cluster from the top is not without its own pitfalls - specifically, it can drive too many (or even all, when the cluster is modest in size) of the clustered balls below where they can serve as a break ball for the next rack, and, relatedly, the balls that are driven down toward or to the foot rail can become tied up and unplayable without being broken apart again.

But with that caveat, I agree entirely that playing from the top side is the way to go.

Many ways to play the game.

Breaking from underneath can be done. It's a very technical and controlled way to play the game. You'll need to accurately control the cueball throughout the break (very tough) and then methodically pick the rack apart from within. It can be done. I can't do it with a reasonable level of consistency for my overall playing level, maybe you can. The advantage to that kind of play is that it's usually easy to create and manage breakballs. And there is a chance of pushing balls up, also, which is bad for other reasons.

Pushing the balls down is a legitimate concern. Scratching can be to, when breaking from the top/sides. Big breaks are very hard to make without SOME risks. Some people say that there is ONE correct way to play straight pool. I disagree, especially at the amateur level. Play to your strengths. That being said, I think at a lower than stellar level, staying above the balls will allow for bigger runs for the average player. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Seth C.]

Originally Posted by Straightpool_99

Many ways to play the game.

Breaking from underneath can be done. It's a very technical and controlled way to play the game. You'll need to accurately control the cueball throughout the break (very tough) and then methodically pick the rack apart from within. It can be done. I can't do it with a reasonable level of consistency for my overall playing level, maybe you can. The advantage to that kind of play is that it's usually easy to create and manage breakballs. And there is a chance of pushing balls up, also, which is bad for other reasons.

Pushing the balls down is a legitimate concern. Scratching can be to, when breaking from the top/sides. Big breaks are very hard to make without SOME risks. Some people say that there is ONE correct way to play straight pool. I disagree, especially at the amateur level. Play to your strengths. That being said, I think at a lower than stellar level, staying above the balls will allow for bigger runs for the average player. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I was unclear. I wasn’t trying to describe the pros and cons of break shots at the start of a rack. I was trying to explain why I think SECONDARY break shots from below should be played - when insurance is present.

I agree that playing to one’s strength is important, if not critical - in competition. When practicing, we should challenge ourselves and work on weaknesses.

[BryanB]

You should blame John Schmidt for making it look easy

[CESSNA10]

Originally Posted by deanoc

the more i try the worse i get

i get nothing but bad rolls until i am afraid to shoot when i get an easy shot

now i want to sell my table

frustrated in dallas

Its the same as all the other games, you need to control Whitey

[deanoc]

John Schmidt shoots thin shots that I duck and makes them look easy.

I watched Dick lane and he plays way different than John,but he runs hundreds,nt six hundreds

I am still not sure that John can beat Nick Varner or Allen Hopkins.
I still like Nick best