Coaching Now Allowed in Scotch Doubles??
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Coaching Now Allowed in Scotch Doubles?? - 01-21-2016, 09:38 AM

I see that coaching is now allowed in scotch doubles, as long as you do it from your seat. I can't say I'm a fan of this rule change. I see the pros coach each other in the Mosconi Cup, but they are pros and they shoot fast. Coaching at the Nationals will slow play considerably. CSI mentions a 45-second "optimal" time frame per shot in this new coaching rule, but I think it's a big mistake and we're going to see a ton of referees being called over to time matches and a bunch of arguments arising.

What do you think?

Ozzy / Mark - Can you enlighten us as to why you changed this rule??
  
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02-03-2016, 06:55 PM

Where did you read this? Searched the entry forms for 2016 Nationals and saw nothing to that affect. There is nothing in the league policy area either. Please elaborate.

Lyn

Never mind! Found it way down on page 8 of the tournament regulations. Sorry.


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02-03-2016, 08:08 PM

On further reading of the tournament rules, paragraph C5 - 2 - b, the rules state "except as prohibited in section C 5 - 2 - c below, during your opponents inning you may quietly discuss ANYTHING you wish with your team. All discussion and communication must stop immediately when your opponents inning ends."

During my twenty five years playing BCA pool league and BCAPL, it has always been my understanding you may NOT discuss your game with your team at any time whether you or your opponent is at the table. Guess I need to contact Bill Stock on this question. What is your interpretation?

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02-04-2016, 07:12 PM

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Originally Posted by cardiac kid View Post
On further reading of the tournament rules, paragraph C5 - 2 - b, the rules state "except as prohibited in section C 5 - 2 - c below, during your opponents inning you may quietly discuss ANYTHING you wish with your team. All discussion and communication must stop immediately when your opponents inning ends."

During my twenty five years playing BCA pool league and BCAPL, it has always been my understanding you may NOT discuss your game with your team at any time whether you or your opponent is at the table. Guess I need to contact Bill Stock on this question. What is your interpretation?

Lyn
Lyn,

The coaching rules for "team" play, where only one person from the team is shooting in a particular game, has not changed. No coaching while the player is at the table.

The coaching rules for scotch doubles HAS changed this year.

From the 2016 BCAPL National Championships Tournament Regulations
RULE C5-1a ... COACHING (Scotch Doubles)
Open communication/coaching IS permitted between teammates during their turn at the table.
However, the non-shooting player must remain in or at his/her chair and may not approach the table.

My guess is that the folks at CSI are trying to align the rules as much as possible with how the pros play. In the Mosconi Cup, scotch doubles teammates constantly talk to each other when they are at the table. But in an amateur event such as the BCAPL Nationals where referees are not scrutinizing every table, I feel that allowing coaching in scotch doubles will open up too many cans of worms.
  
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02-04-2016, 07:57 PM

Spoke with Bill Stock via e-mail this morning. Having played BCAPL for all those years, I never knew we could coach a player during the time when he or she was NOT at the table shooting. We always respected the individuals playing the game. Whether or not it was a written rule.

In 2012, the team from Vegas I play on lost the open team championship final because we thought we could not instruct our player how to play safe while he was standing waiting for his opponent to finish his turn at the table. Won't make that mistake again for sure.

As far as coaching in scotch doubles, if I remember correctly, TAP allows a team member to "shout" out instructions to a player at the table but may not approach the table. That was for the team events. Not sure about the doubles. Regardless, I don't like it. It cheapens the event. Allows the players to NOT practice playing together. It helps the weak team a bit. The stronger team just got stronger. BIG mistake on BCAPL's part.

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Coaching - 05-19-2016, 09:06 AM

This change was made after much deliberation. In the end, the consensus was that scotch doubles is the ultimate display of teamwork in pool and not allowing two partners to communicate makes it less of a team event. We believed that it was time to make this change to improve the team atmosphere and overall enjoyment of the players.


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06-08-2016, 06:26 PM

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Originally Posted by CSI News View Post
This change was made after much deliberation. In the end, the consensus was that scotch doubles is the ultimate display of teamwork in pool and not allowing two partners to communicate makes it less of a team event. We believed that it was time to make this change to improve the team atmosphere and overall enjoyment of the players.
If scotch doubles is an ultimate display of teamwork, why isn't "at the table" coaching allowed in other team events? Doubles teamwork involves mingling two different styles of play. Mine and my female partner. We used to spend hours practicing. Now all I have to do is shout instructions. BAD idea. Cheapens the game. My guess is entries are dropping so BCAPL must make it easier for two different people to play together. Like so many other aspects of the game, it's just another move to mediocrity. JMHO.

Incidentally, I no longer play doubles so it does not affect me.

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07-15-2016, 09:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSI News View Post
This change was made after much deliberation. In the end, the consensus was that scotch doubles is the ultimate display of teamwork in pool and not allowing two partners to communicate makes it less of a team event. We believed that it was time to make this change to improve the team atmosphere and overall enjoyment of the players.
The two partners CAN communicate - while not at the table. While at the table, skill,experience and knowledge are required. When the stronger player is allowed to simply shout instructions and dictate how to play the shot, much less experience and knowledge is required. We played under the new rule at the Texas BCA tournament, and most of the players I talked to did not like this new rule. Re the above "and overall enjoyment of the players" - I do not believe that the weaker teammate enjoys constantly being told what to do and what shot to play. I too think this is a bad idea - it definitely reduces the skill level required when only one team member can control all the decisions needed to be made while at the table.
  
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07-16-2016, 05:15 AM

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Originally Posted by fiftyyardline View Post
The two partners CAN communicate - while not at the table. While at the table, skill,experience and knowledge are required. When the stronger player is allowed to simply shout instructions and dictate how to play the shot, much less experience and knowledge is required. We played under the new rule at the Texas BCA tournament, and most of the players I talked to did not like this new rule. Re the above "and overall enjoyment of the players" - I do not believe that the weaker teammate enjoys constantly being told what to do and what shot to play. I too think this is a bad idea - it definitely reduces the skill level required when only one team member can control all the decisions needed to be made while at the table.
Thanks fifty. Agree wholeheartedly. Just another example of how our society supports the move from excellence to mediocrity! The old way required practice. The new way? You tell me how it improves the game?

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12-08-2019, 06:50 AM

Old thread. But want updated info. It doesn't make sense. You can shout instruction from your chair? If your partner is shooting, why are you in your chair? You should be near the table watching. So do you go back to your chair after every shot you take? Or wait for a miss and it's you opponent's turn?


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